Conceding the Rack - A different perspective

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, last night I played terrible. There were times were I rattled ball after ball. Well, finally got in line and started running the rack (9-ball). I get down to an odd lengthy shot on the 8 and it rattles. Now the 8 ball is sitting in the lower right pocket and the 9 is sitting in the lower left pocket. I was disgusted and conceded the rack. The guy comes up yelling at me that he wants to shoot the last two. I told him it's ok, I conceded already (both balls are hangers on a bar table... I mean come on.) He told me he's going to shoot them, because he's missed easy shots "like this" before. I just laughed at him and said whatever buddy. Now he is pissed off and shoots them anyway.

I don't agree with someone conceding if they aren't at the table, for instance:
If I'm running the rack and the last two or three are hangers, and my opponent gets up and says I don't have to shoot them, because he concedes, then I see that as a shark move. He's not at the table, so he shouldn't be saying anything.

Now, like last night, I was at the table, missed a shot, noticed the table was a wash, and conceded. Why would he get so upset? He was shooting, so I wasn't sharking him.
 

DJ14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't agree with someone conceding if they aren't at the table, for instance:
If I'm running the rack and the last two or three are hangers, and my opponent gets up and says I don't have to shoot them, because he concedes, then I see that as a shark move. He's not at the table, so he shouldn't be saying anything.

Not sure I agree with this part. If a player wants to concede the rack to you from the bench, I don't see a problem with it. Consider it a compliment. Being sharked only really pertains to someone distracting you with balls you must shoot, right? In this case you don't have to shoot them. Bothers your rhythm a bit, I get that.

Some tournaments forbid conceding racks, which is a whole other story. Now it's against the rules.

On your other point, people play for lots of reasons. The guy that absolutely wanted to shoot those few balls might be being truly nice to you....ie....what he said could be the truth. Then he felt disrespected and got pissed. Or he wanted the self-satisfaction of making the balls....or some mix of all the above. Or, he could just be an ass and wanted to rub it in :) Who knows.
 

ktrepal85

Banned
Conceding the rack from the bench is not at all a shark move. It's a compliment saying that your run out ability from here is automatic. From your perspective you can only concede after you miss your shot? That makes no sense. What if a player breaks and runs down to an easy 9 ball and you tell him he's good. That's sharking in your mind? These situations come up all the time and I think you're the only one that takes it in a bad way.
 

michael4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
. Now the 8 ball is sitting in the lower right pocket and the 9 is sitting in the lower left pocket. I was disgusted and conceded the rack. The guy comes up yelling at me that he wants to shoot the last two.

he was out of line for yelling........you did the right thing by leaving the balls on the table, in case he wanted the "feeling" of shooting in the 9-ball......

he would have a better argument if you had raked the balls, so he didn't have the opportunity to close it out (if that was important to him)


on the other hand, no half-way decent player needs to "practice" by sinking two hangers, so I don't know what he is concerned about....
 

DJ14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah, and when your opponents want to make life easier for you, don't interrupt them :)

I got ahead 4-0 in a race to 5 for cash once and my opponent got so frustrated he conceded the set. He gave me a free game; I wasn't about to complain. So we reset the beads and played another.
 

Barry Banks

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if someone wants to concede the rack and give you courtesy, it shouldn't matter if he is sitting in the chair watching you run out, or if, like you, he missed and left balls hanging. In my opinion, best practice is to never give courtesy. Espescially when gambling. If you routinely give courtesy, then your opponent might expect it every time they get down to shoot an easy 9 ball. If you decide not to do so on a particular shot, then they can end up shooting the ball while wondering why you didn't concede and then they could miss the ball and call you our for pulling a move.

Years ago i was gambling with a friend and we used to give eachother courtesy. One set i had a comfortable lead but we ended up going hill hill. he got down to shoot an extremely easy 9 ball for the win and because i was frustrated with my play i didn't give him courtesy because i wanted him to have to make it for the win. Of course, it rattles in the hole and i win the set. He was fuming and angry that i sharked him by not giving courtesy. now, you can come down on whatever side of that argument you want, but since then we have not conceded anything and there has never been any type of disagreement since.
 

Physiqz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have mixed feelings.

Last night in tap league I was playing a Higher ranked player that conceded 3 games to me. He needed to win 4 to my 3. 2 of them he conceded on the 8ball and 1 of them he scratched and i had 3 balls left on the table. Needless to say I won 4-1 without feeling like I worked for it.

I'll take the win nevertheless and will be happy with it, but I would rather shoot the last series of shots to warm up my arm so I can let my stroke out if needed in the next game, and to get a better feel of the table at an establishment I rarely play in.

But then again he was mad he was a higher rank in league than I was, but in local tournys I am 2-4 ranks higher than he is, I told him straight up, it is my fist session in TAP, and it was only my 4th match so my rank has not got established yet and not to be upset over it.
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Conceding the rack from the bench is not at all a shark move. It's a compliment saying that your run out ability from here is automatic. From your perspective you can only concede after you miss your shot? That makes no sense. What if a player breaks and runs down to an easy 9 ball and you tell him he's good. That's sharking in your mind? These situations come up all the time and I think you're the only one that takes it in a bad way.

You completely misunderstood everything I posted. I'm not upset about anything.

By conceding while your in the chair, I mean the guy that gets up while someone is shooting and rakes the balls.

he was out of line for yelling........you did the right thing by leaving the balls on the table, in case he wanted the "feeling" of shooting in the 9-ball......

he would have a better argument if you had raked the balls, so he didn't have the opportunity to close it out (if that was important to him)


on the other hand, no half-way decent player needs to "practice" by sinking two hangers, so I don't know what he is concerned about....

I agree, he was really hostile for something so silly. I can understand, maybe, if I had raked the balls, but they were hangers, and I've never had anyone demand they get to shoot them.
 

DJ14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if someone wants to concede the rack and give you courtesy, it shouldn't matter if he is sitting in the chair watching you run out, or if, like you, he missed and left balls hanging. In my opinion, best practice is to never give courtesy. Espescially when gambling. If you routinely give courtesy, then your opponent might expect it every time they get down to shoot an easy 9 ball. If you decide not to do so on a particular shot, then they can end up shooting the ball while wondering why you didn't concede and then they could miss the ball and call you our for pulling a move.

Years ago i was gambling with a friend and we used to give eachother courtesy. One set i had a comfortable lead but we ended up going hill hill. he got down to shoot an extremely easy 9 ball for the win and because i was frustrated with my play i didn't give him courtesy because i wanted him to have to make it for the win. Of course, it rattles in the hole and i win the set. He was fuming and angry that i sharked him by not giving courtesy. now, you can come down on whatever side of that argument you want, but since then we have not conceded anything and there has never been any type of disagreement since.

Good stuff here. Anybody that's gambled their share probably has a story similar to this one.
 

Mikey Town

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't know why anyone would ever have a problem with someone conceding a ball(s) to them.

If you want to give it to me, I'll take it.

On the flip side of the coin, if you give me 27 9-balls in a row, in a race to 28, and you want to make me shoot the last one, that's fine by me. Not a shark move at all, no matter how easy the shot. After all, the name of the game is "9 Ball," not "8 Ball Plus Shape."

The only way something like that can shark you is if you let it.
 

drv4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't know why anyone would ever have a problem with someone conceding a ball(s) to them.

If you want to give it to me, I'll take it.

On the flip side of the coin, if you give me 27 9-balls in a row, in a race to 28, and you want to make me shoot the last one, that's fine by me. Not a shark move at all, no matter how easy the shot. After all, the name of the game is "9 Ball," not "8 Ball Plus Shape."

The only way something like that can shark you is if you let it.

This is exactly how I feel. I personally don't concede a shot if it is for the set no matter how easy. If it's that easy just make it and shake my hand. Seen too many miscues, funny rolls, and rattled shots, accidental follow scratches to concede for the set. You won't shark me by giving me 9 concessions and then making me shoot the last one. Honestly, people that get sharked I feel like are mentally weak and looking for excuses.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Conceding can be a shark, intentional or not. Next time you have a duck or two to shoot for the win will you be wondering whether or not your opponent will concede again?

Will he concede again? Should you hesitate a few seconds to give him a chance to concede? Why isn't he conceding? Does he think you can't make it? Why not? etc. etc. ...

He's in your head now by conceding before.

pj
chgo
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So, last night I played terrible. There were times were I rattled ball after ball. Well, finally got in line and started running the rack (9-ball). I get down to an odd lengthy shot on the 8 and it rattles. Now the 8 ball is sitting in the lower right pocket and the 9 is sitting in the lower left pocket. I was disgusted and conceded the rack. The guy comes up yelling at me that he wants to shoot the last two. I told him it's ok, I conceded already (both balls are hangers on a bar table... I mean come on.) He told me he's going to shoot them, because he's missed easy shots "like this" before. I just laughed at him and said whatever buddy. Now he is pissed off and shoots them anyway.

I don't agree with someone conceding if they aren't at the table, for instance:
If I'm running the rack and the last two or three are hangers, and my opponent gets up and says I don't have to shoot them, because he concedes, then I see that as a shark move. He's not at the table, so he shouldn't be saying anything.

Now, like last night, I was at the table, missed a shot, noticed the table was a wash, and conceded. Why would he get so upset? He was shooting, so I wasn't sharking him.

sometimes if you concede the last few balls the shooter doesnt have visual of watching the game ball go in
so you concede a game or 2 and now you make him run out there is a different pressure
for me i accept the concession but like to shoot them out anyway
also if i havent felt "in the groove" i want to shoot the hangers to get a rhythm
 

ktrepal85

Banned
What about this scenario(I like to do this):

You meet someone to play and neither of you are warmed up. You flip the coin and get right to it. I'm up a few games and my opponent hasn't had a chance to really make any balls yet. He got a few bad rolls/tough shots and I'm playing good. I then leave him approaching the table with an easy 3 ball out. I'll immediately concede the rack so that he doesn't get in stroke. Next thing you know he breaks dry and he is the chair again just itching to hit some balls.

Is that sharking?
 

Colonel

Living The Dream
Silver Member
I never believed in it, I never concede and tell my opponents prior to the match to not concede any balls to me as I won't return their gesture.

Some feel it's giving respect to concede the last ball or two if they're hangers. Some feel it deprives the shooter the positive momentum to shoot out the rack. My feeling is I watched Jay Swanson miscue on a hill hill 9 ball that was straight in 3" from the pocket and the cue ball 6" behind it it cost him 5 dimes. Since then, I concede nothing.
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What about this scenario(I like to do this):

You meet someone to play and neither of you are warmed up. You flip the coin and get right to it. I'm up a few games and my opponent hasn't had a chance to really make any balls yet. He got a few bad rolls/tough shots and I'm playing good. I then leave him approaching the table with an easy 3 ball out. I'll immediately concede the rack so that he doesn't get in stroke. Next thing you know he breaks dry and he is the chair again just itching to hit some balls.

Is that sharking?

The difference would be if you had raked the balls or not.

I didn't rake the balls, I left them for him to shoot. I went to grab the rack and he freaked out. Mind you, he was already up on me and had not been sitting in his chair like your poor example depicts.
 

Physiqz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What about this scenario(I like to do this):

You meet someone to play and neither of you are warmed up. You flip the coin and get right to it. I'm up a few games and my opponent hasn't had a chance to really make any balls yet. He got a few bad rolls/tough shots and I'm playing good. I then leave him approaching the table with an easy 3 ball out. I'll immediately concede the rack so that he doesn't get in stroke. Next thing you know he breaks dry and he is the chair again just itching to hit some balls.

Is that sharking?

I see that happen alot in action games. It is very common to do that. If someone is out of stroke it is a good strategy, if someone is playing cold, then that is their fault. I don't see this being out of line, especially with money on the line
 

SeabrookMiglla

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
its one of those gray areas, everyone is a little bit different about how they play. some people dont care others take offence, some take it as a compliment others want that last shot. i think consistency is something that is important, like when you are giving some final shots away but other times you dont, it can be a distraction because your like 'do you want me to shoot it or not?'

im not too picky really, but i understand where people are coming from if it bothers them. i think if its a pressure situation, and im down 3 racks and havent won a game and my opponent rattles the 9 or leaves me an easy shot, i want that last ball personally. to me its a confidence booster, and it gets my nerves in check. that may be only easy shot of the game you know, so in that one shot i want to be sure im stroking good etc. but thats just me...
 

chevybob20

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Conceding balls can definitely be a shark move. I concede the last ball all the time. But, sometimes late in the set, I stop. This will rattle some people. It is a small edge that has dramatic results.

Also, it shortens your opponents time at the table. If he's not at the table, you are.

Doesn't the DCC have a rule about this? If you concede a game, then you lose that game and the next? It'll cost you two games. Greg Sullivan might know something about moves. :wink:
 
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