Congratulations John Barton!
- Thread starter DAVE_M
- Start date
John Barton is not the only cue case manufacturer in the world?
I found it amusing. So many people bash John's products, well here is proof that they are worth copying.
"imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"
I have not see his products and know nothing about them.
I have an opinion on the forum poster though..
I have an opinion on the forum poster though..
And we're talking about his products, not him.
Too many knuckle heads worried about John and not the quality work that comes out of his shop...
Good for you. Low life Trolls are full of useless opinions.
What's to bash?
Those are not knockoffs. Our Rugged line is not a new design. It is the same basic case look that Proper started in the 80s.
What I did is simply make it tougher. These cases are not even close to ours as anyone can tell in a physical comparison.
Certainly though it won't be long before knockoffs do start appearing and with certainty they will be weak. I will address that and rip them to shreds on video when it happens so that consumers will be warned.
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What I did is simply make it tougher. These cases are not even close to ours as anyone can tell in a physical comparison.
Certainly though it won't be long before knockoffs do start appearing and with certainty they will be weak. I will address that and rip them to shreds on video when it happens so that consumers will be warned.
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No one can own the market. You can't stop copying from happening because there is effectively no protection for the look of utilitarian items in the USA for small businesses. If you're an Apple you can sue and sometimes win against those who knock you off in whole or in part but realisticly for the small maker it is way to expensive to pursue a trade dress infringement suit.
And in China forget about it. The only way to stop copying there outside government crackdowns would be to employ mafia style tactics. But its literally whack-a-mole because when you stop one factory another opens up.
Copying is an accepted way of life in China and I actually understand it. Sure it hurts to see our products knocked off but I can hardly stop anyone from surviving the way they want to. It is essentially the risk you take as a maker.
I always say if you were a farmer and your neighbor was getting double yields wouldn't you copy what he is doing? Of course you would. We are all taught to copy success so I can't fault any one for copying us.
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My post was in answer to the previous post.
Thanks for trolling in and making a useless low life troll post yourself though - ironic in the circumstances.
This reminds me of those crappy Whitten knockoffs that apparently don't hold up very well.
There's something intriguing about cool cue cases, and a lot of people comment on a nice case.
I say if you buy a knockoff, don't act like you've got the real thing><:smile:
..."are you sure it's an Instroke"
..."well, I think it's a Victorini of something"
Ir is said imitation is the highest form of flattery.
You know what I find interesting is that no one stands up for Whitten. On this forum if a Jack Justis "style" case shows up that is NOT made in the USA the lynch mob comes out in full force wanting to execute the "offenders".
BUT
If someone is selling Whitten knockoffs - and I mean dead nuts copies not just just western belt decorated cases with ancient stamping patterns on them - then they are given an apparent free pass. As if Whitten is not worthy of being defended on the forum wheras poor Jack will be ruined if any case is allowed to be sold without comment that even looks a tiny bit like something he built.
I don't understand that.
Is is because Joe Whitten isn't an active member of the forum? Because he doesn't show off the cases he builds to the forum members, doesn't run around donating cases to pros?
Is it that simple, tribal mentality? Because we here "know" Jack through the forum we will tear apart anything that looks a little bit like his case (IF it's not made in the USA or Canada that is). But Joe Whitten is not a member of the tribe so his stuff can be knocked off and cheap copies sold with no offense?
Keep in mind that copying a Whitten or a Justis or any brand is not illegal. It's perfectly legal to knockoff in whole or in part any case design you want to, with the exception of duplicating copyrighted artwork on the case. But the case itself, including the decoration that is not separate art is a legal target. It's tacky to make dead nuts copies but not illegal in the USA.
But why is it morally ok for Whitten copies to be allowed to flourish with zero negative comments and social shaming and yet Justis-like cases, which aren't even copies, are seen as the mark of the Beast with the poor soul who dared to show or sell them forever labeled a thief?
Hypocritical at the least I say. Ignorant at best because the cases which have earned so much scorn for being Justis knockoffs are not Justis knockoffs. And for that matter why don't Justis and Ron Thomas get criticized for "knocking off" their predecessors, Dennis Swift, Jay Flowers/Nora Van Horn, It's George/Fellini/Centennial/Ann Gore etc...
Copying is a way of life. All successful ideas and designs get copied. Innovation is a way of life. All successful ideas were born from taking what existed and building on it, making a better it, finding a new way to do it.
Instead of getting all nutso over copies just accept that they exist because that's who we are as humans. Unlike other animals we have the ability to replicate what we observe. Sometimes that is simple replication of a method and sometimes it results in a prosthetic limb to replicate how a hand works.
Think about it.
Really think about it.
How many times in your life have you done something because someone you know did it before you? If you ever bought a jump cue because your friend has one then you copied him. He in turn copied someone else. It's not just about making things. It's about living our lives with the intention of being the best that we can be and that how we do this is we take our lessons from those we see and trust.
So really just drop all the negative commentary about copying. It does suck for the original maker when a product is knocked off but that is what they sign up for when they decide to be makers. Makers always know that IF their stuff catches on that someone will copy it. Be that someone an equally skilled colleague or a factory turning out cheap look-a-likes.
Thank you for the concern but it's not needed. It's all part of the cycle of life and not really a big deal. Don't cry for Whitten, Justis or me, we are makers who chose our path in life and that includes sharing that path with those who like our work enough to copy it.
Pay more attention to the quality of the work and make sure you are getting high quality durable cases from whomever you decide to buy from. The whole point of competition is to provide you with the best possible case at the lowest possible price.
It's one thing to model your design after a certain casemaker, and put out a product that is competitive, but when the product is 1/4th the price, you get what you pay for.
I don't know what Pro Series is doing these days, but about 5-years ago I was helping out a guy at Table Steaks, and bought a couple of cues that came in a Pro Series 3 x 5 case.
I'm not a case snob, but this case was so crappy it was embarrassing.
The vinyl was more like a rubbery plastic, really weird, crappier than other imported cases I've owned.
If it was decent quality I might of kept it, however, I sold the package 5-miniutes later for a cool $6 profit
John,
Most of the posters on this forum are too young to remember what business was like in the late seventies and early eighties. Each year the store staff and myself would travel to Chicago for the Consumer Electronics Show. Where ever you went, there were Japanese visitors with cameras in hand. Any manufacturer foolish enough to display a naked chassis was quickly swamped by those "attendees". In a year or so, all their proprietary circuitry was copied and sometimes improved on by the Japanese manufacturers. Usually at a much lower cost. The only thing that has changed is where the "knock-off" products are manufactured.
Lyn
Most of the posters on this forum are too young to remember what business was like in the late seventies and early eighties. Each year the store staff and myself would travel to Chicago for the Consumer Electronics Show. Where ever you went, there were Japanese visitors with cameras in hand. Any manufacturer foolish enough to display a naked chassis was quickly swamped by those "attendees". In a year or so, all their proprietary circuitry was copied and sometimes improved on by the Japanese manufacturers. Usually at a much lower cost. The only thing that has changed is where the "knock-off" products are manufactured.
Lyn
Not that I know of. They had a break cue that Mike claimed was a copy but in fact it was simply a break cue with features that came from many different cues.
Of course it happens all the time - that was the point of my post.
There are both Whitten and Justis knockoffs all over the place. There is even another case out there called a "Rugged", that is a horrible knockoff of the the JB rugged line.
Complete Whitten copy.
"Justis Style" case, but could be any style case.
Even better:
This is a partial image of a viny version of the case you show above with embroidered decoration that copies Justis' signature look including a version of the crest.