Connelly 'Ultimate' pocket openings

swest

swest

goldmember
Silver Member
Greetings,

I'm in the process of rehabilitating a previously owned Connelly Ultimate. You may remember some time back I had questions about reworking the subrails. I also mentioned that I might just buy a new set of rails...

Well, I finally decided to order a new set of rails. The old rails really needed work, and then, even after all the rail work, I couldn't be sure that the cushions would be acceptable until I had completely assembled the table and tried them out. So, new rails seemed the way to go.

I have a question about customizing this kind of order with Connelly Billiards.

Before I get to the question, however, I have to compliment Connelly here. I first called them back in October, I think, and asked for a quote for the cost of the rails. They were very helpful and gave me a $ amount that I thought was quite reasonable (not cheap, by any means, but very reasonable.) At the time I still wasn't sure whether I was going to try to repair the rails that I had, or not, so I didn't place an order.

Then, two weeks ago, I decided that I better call them and make sure that the price wasn't likely to go up after the first of the year. If I found they were planning a price increase, I wanted to make my decision and get my order in.

During that conversation, I was given a different, more expensive, price. I told them what I had been quoted just a couple of weeks before. It was not a trivial $ difference, but nevertheless I was told that they would honor the original quote! This was very honorable, and was done on my word alone.

Thanks, Connelly!

Anyway, as you might imagine, I decided to place the order right then. In my haste, however, I failed to ask about the size of the pocket openings on the 'standard' Connelly table, and whether this was a customizable option. Oh, well... It was done, and I was going to live with the result.



So last week (only 10 days after my order) I got a call that the rails were ready and that they would send them to my local Connelly store for me to pick up... Unfortunately, they didn't make it on that Friday's (11/30) delivery, but they did make it yesterday (12/1). However, when I went in to get them, it turns out that they had produced a standard (non-Ultimate) set of rails...

This means that they're going to be re-fabricating the rails, so now I'll have an opportunity to ask about the pocket size.

I believe the pockets on a Connelly will measure between 5" and 5-1/8". I want pockets that are between 4-5/8" to 4-3/4" -- not quite as tight as a pro pocket, but definitely tighter than the GCIVs that we play on in our league... I figure that if I start with a 1/8" facing on, say, a 4-3/4" pocket, then I could later replace it with a 1/4" facing to get me down to a 4-1/2" pocket...

So finally (whew!) to my question: Has anyone had Connelly produce rails to a custom pocket size? Is this even an option with Connelly, and if it is, are they reliable at making such a customization?

Thanks.

- s.west

p.s. I talked to the Service Manager (he got my message from last night, and called me back.) He apologized for the error and will get it straightened out with manufacturing on Monday. I asked him the pocket-size question, and he didn't know if it is an option. We'll talk again on Monday - actually, I'm going to go to their office and have a face-to-face about it so there's no mistakes with the numbers.
 
I think your idea with the facing is good. They should make the pockets your specs, they are a top USA made table. But that's a question you should ask them not us.
 
Other than "Maybe" getting thicker pocket facings added, I doubt you'll find any manufacture willing to build a factory built table with custom pocket openings, meaning "pro pocket" openings. To date, the only manufacture I've ever known of with that kind of offer....is Diamond! Even Gabriels don't make a pro pocket for their 9fts, but they'll add thick as hell facings...LOL...which I don't like, but then...who am I?...LMAO

Glen
 
swest said:
Greetings,
I believe the pockets on a Connelly will measure between 5" and 5-1/8". I want pockets that are between 4-5/8" to 4-3/4" -- not quite as tight as a pro pocket, but definitely tighter than the GCIVs that we play on in our league... I figure that if I start with a 1/8" facing on, say, a 4-3/4" pocket, then I could later replace it with a 1/4" facing to get me down to a 4-1/2" pocket...
Click to expand...

I hate to tell you this, but all manufactures that use the #6 pocket irons cut the rails to a pre-determined length, which is then drilled for the ear of the pocket iron, which in turn, determines the gap between the side rails at the side pocket based on the width of the pocket iron and leather being attached, that sets the side pocket for the opening then. On the corner pockets, depending on where the pocket iron ear hole is drilled...keep in mind the rails have to be cut to length...if the pocket is mounted further back in the rails...you'll have tighter pockets, if the pocket is mounted closer in to the slate shelf...you'll have wider pockets...but there's a domino's effect when you make any kind of change like that....ie: more pocket sticking out the back of the rails in the corners, less distance between the slate shelf and the back of the pockets...all kinds of problems!...So, the best you're going to get...is thicker pocket shims is my guess!

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
Other than "Maybe" getting thicker pocket facings added, I doubt you'll find any manufacture willing to build a factory built table with custom pocket openings, meaning "pro pocket" openings. To date, the only manufacture I've ever known of with that kind of offer....is Diamond! Even Gabriels don't make a pro pocket for their 9fts, but they'll add thick as hell facings...LOL...which I don't like, but then...who am I?...LMAO
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I hate to tell you this, but all manufactures that use the #6 pocket irons cut the rails to a pre-determined length, which is then drilled for the ear of the pocket iron, which in turn, determines the gap between the side rails at the side pocket based on the width of the pocket iron and leather being attached, that sets the side pocket for the opening then. On the corner pockets, depending on where the pocket iron ear hole is drilled...keep in mind the rails have to be cut to length...if the pocket is mounted further back in the rails...you'll have tighter pockets, if the pocket is mounted closer in to the slate shelf...you'll have wider pockets...but there's a domino's effect when you make any kind of change like that....ie: more pocket sticking out the back of the rails in the corners, less distance between the slate shelf and the back of the pockets...all kinds of problems!...So, the best you're going to get...is thicker pocket shims is my guess!
Glen
Click to expand...

I figured you'd know!

I got a call back from them today, and no, they won't modify the rails...

With respect to the shims, they did say they'd add, I repeat, add, another shim. I specifically asked, "Are you saying you'll replace the 1/8" facing with a 1/4" facing, or add a second 1/8" facing..." The answer was the latter.

So, I instructed them to just make the standard rails.

Is there a noticeable difference between a single 1/4" facing and two 1/8" facings? In other words, should I call them back and have them add the second facing?

Or, should I just go with what I get for now, and at the next recovering, replace the 1/8" with 1/4" facings?

Thoughts?

Thanks.

- s.west
 
swest said:
I figured you'd know!

I got a call back from them today, and no, they won't modify the rails...

With respect to the shims, they did say they'd add, I repeat, add, another shim. I specifically asked, "Are you saying you'll replace the 1/8" facing with a 1/4" facing, or add a second 1/8" facing..." The answer was the latter.

So, I instructed them to just make the standard rails.

Is there a noticeable difference between a single 1/4" facing and two 1/8" facings? In other words, should I call them back and have them add the second facing?

Or, should I just go with what I get for now, and at the next recovering, replace the 1/8" with 1/4" facings?

Thoughts?

Thanks.

- s.west
Click to expand...
I doubt they even have any 1/4" facings, as they'd have NO use for them, which is why they said they'd add another shim...LOL, funny as to how I knew they wouldn't tighten the pockets up...LOL Just get the rails as is, and have someone that knows what they're doing, extend the sub rails at a later date. Doubling up the facings is something I don't think they'd do very well, as they're just cabinet makers anyway...not billiards technicians, which is why I've said before, that ANY one who calls themselves "Factory Certified" is full of shit..., because it takes a "REAL" technician to be able to work on "ANYTHING" out here, and not just one kind of pool table...LOL:D

Glen
 
A 5.5mm facing is .216"
If they don't have 5.5mm you can buy a set and replace the 3.2mm facings prior to covering the rails.
This is preferable to using 2 of the 3.2mm facings (.125" ea) together.
or
You can extend the rails with a 1/8" wood shim then use a single 3.2mm facing.



swest said:
I figured you'd know!

I got a call back from them today, and no, they won't modify the rails...

With respect to the shims, they did say they'd add, I repeat, add, another shim. I specifically asked, "Are you saying you'll replace the 1/8" facing with a 1/4" facing, or add a second 1/8" facing..." The answer was the latter.

So, I instructed them to just make the standard rails.

Is there a noticeable difference between a single 1/4" facing and two 1/8" facings? In other words, should I call them back and have them add the second facing?

Or, should I just go with what I get for now, and at the next recovering, replace the 1/8" with 1/4" facings?

Thoughts?

Thanks.

- s.west
Click to expand...
 
Dartman said:
A 5.5mm facing is .216"
If they don't have 5.5mm you can buy a set and replace the 3.2mm facings prior to covering the rails.
This is preferable to using 2 of the 3.2mm facings (.125" ea) together.
Click to expand...
Should I try and get them to leave off the facings altogether? Or is it a relatively easy task to remove factory-installed facings?
or
You can extend the rails with a 1/8" wood shim then use a single 3.2mm facing.
Click to expand...
??

Do I stretch the cushion rubber to cover that extra 1/8" :D

Seriously, though, could you clarify the 1/8" wood shim recommendation?
 
swest said:
Should I try and get them to leave off the facings altogether? Or is it a relatively easy task to remove factory-installed facings?

??

Do I stretch the cushion rubber to cover that extra 1/8" :D

Seriously, though, could you clarify the 1/8" wood shim recommendation?
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt Connelly would know the first thing about wooden sub-rail extensions, let alone how to do them right. I'm not trying to knock Connelly, but I just know that factory workers are limited in knowledge to what their jobs are, they don't know anything about how to hotrod a pool table so to speak...LOL:D

Glen
 
My confusion here is with the

You can extend the rails with a 1/8" wood shim then use a single 3.2mm facing.
Click to expand...
comment.

The rails that I'm getting come complete with the cushion rubber... So this suggestion doesn't directly apply, does it?

I wouldn't go to the expense of ordering new, factory, rails, and then removing the cushion rubber, extending the subrails, and reapplying <new> cushion rubber... so I'm assuming I'm just stuck with the 5.5mm facing option.

So I guess the only remaining question is whether I try to get them leave off the 3.2mm facings or just remove them myself prior to covering the rails? If it's no big deal to remove the factory-applied facings, then I'm not going to worry about it, and just deal with it when I get the rails.
 
swest said:
My confusion here is with the


comment.

The rails that I'm getting come complete with the cushion rubber... So this suggestion doesn't directly apply, does it?

I wouldn't go to the expense of ordering new, factory, rails, and then removing the cushion rubber, extending the subrails, and reapplying <new> cushion rubber... so I'm assuming I'm just stuck with the 5.5mm facing option.

So I guess the only remaining question is whether I try to get them leave off the 3.2mm facings or just remove them myself prior to covering the rails? If it's no big deal to remove the factory-applied facings, then I'm not going to worry about it, and just deal with it when I get the rails.
Click to expand...
The facings are easy to remove, so you don't have to worry about that. I guess, at the least...have them double up the facings from the factory, if they'll do that, then you don't have to try doing anything from the start. But, if they don't do a good job of double shimming the pockets, then deal with it when you get the rails. I think you already know what I think of double shimed pockets, but at this stage of the game...I don't know what else to tell you.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
The facings are easy to remove, so you don't have to worry about that. I guess, at the least...have them double up the facings from the factory, if they'll do that, then you don't have to try doing anything from the start. But, if they don't do a good job of double shimming the pockets, then deal with it when you get the rails. I think you already know what I think of double shimed pockets, but at this stage of the game...I don't know what else to tell you.

Glen
Click to expand...
Ok, that's the way I'm going to go... I'll order a set of 5.5mm facings just in case the doubled facings from the factory don't please.

Where do I get the best facings?

Thanks for your advice.

- s.west
 
swest said:
Ok, that's the way I'm going to go... I'll order a set of 5.5mm facings just in case the doubled facings from the factory don't please.

Where do I get the best facings?

Thanks for your advice.

- s.west
Click to expand...
You can call Diamond and ask for Brian (812-288-7665), have him send you the 3/16" neoprene facings they use on the 9ft tables they build.

Glen
 
swest said:
The rails that I'm getting come complete with the cushion rubber... So this suggestion doesn't directly apply, does it?
Click to expand...

Since you're ordering new rails complete with cushions then no, the wood shim deal would not apply in your particular case.

As Gleno mentioned, you can get a set of the neoprene facings (3/16") and then replace the facings that come on the rails. 3/16" is a tad smaller then 5.5mm facings but one of either is preferable to doubling up 1/8" facings and making a rig job of it.
 
I called Brian w/Diamond - nice guy, by the way, very helpful and informative - and he's sending me a set of their 1/4" facings...

He informed me that their current, corner pocket, configuration is: 141* opening angle, 15* backdraft angle, 3/16" facings, with a 4.5" opening...

He gave me a little history of their pocket configurations, saying that they had started at 143*, and had used various facing thicknesses, but that they feel the current values achieve the optimum performance.

Interesting stuff, and it's nice to hear the thoughts of a knowledgeable person from a table manufacturer...
 
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