Contact Point Aiming Illusion

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I look at angles. I do look at the cotactt point but I primarily look at the angle where the line from the pocket extends through the object ball and the angle of my entire cue stick to that line. It’s hard to explain but what you’re doing is setting up your cue stick to the intersection of that line from the pocket. Too much emphasis is put on the cue tip and not the entire cue stick
Good description. :) I think I do something quite similar. There's no way I can describe everything, but about the cue on the shot line, I try to "feel" it as I'm getting into the shot. I may do a few strokes in the air while up to help get a feel. Once down, I'll do a couple feather strokes to confirm that I really did get down on the line. The feather strokes should not waver. You can do a slight adjustment while down, but unless it's absolutely minuscule, I'm much better off getting up and resetting.

That line of the stick is super important. Being off of that line is also why you see such strange strokes in people or feel them in yourself. It's common for players to be off line a bit and try to steer or swoop the cue into a straight path. The oddball strokes that you wonder "why did I hit it like that" often come from your subconscious actually trying to drive the cue on a straight trajectory when it's off line. Much less adapting and risk of error when the stick is straight to begin with. Feathering tells you a lot of info if you pay attention.
 

Brookeland Bill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Contact point aiming is probably one of the most common aiming techniques out there. I believe Jim Rempe, among others stated he just aims at the contact point. It's easy to figure out. You stand behind the object ball and sight a line to the intended pocket.

The problem is that if you use this system for shots over 10 degrees, you start to under cut the ball. You will hit the shot too full and must compensate to send the cue ball to the right place. Then why do users aim at the contact point if they will miss the shot? And are they really aiming at the contact pint?

Best,
Mike
The contact point isn’t the ‘contact point’. You’re delusional if your trying to hit one finite point on the spherical object ball with another finite point (contact point) on the spherical cue ball. You’re kidding yourself and have been for decades. I’m not going into greater detail only to tell you you have to change your approach to aiming and hitting the object ball on one side or the other of what the ghost ball leads you to believe where you need to aim.
 

snookered_again

Well-known member
I think the spin or "gearing" affects aim as well as the contact point. anytime you are hitting the OB so it is not straight on, and are also hitting the CB center ball you are throwing the object ball and you are causing it to spin..

I think I habitually compensate for that unless I'm using spin to direct the CB after first cushion.. someone else could go ahead explain it all better or in different terms. but I see that as a little "fly in the ointment" to think about.

Here's my take which may not be correct.. but Ill put it into my own words and the "experts" can agree or call me on it , this is just to see if I have it right , I'm not making a statement, I'm learning, and I'm trying to wrap my head around it..

a ball hits to steer the ball towards the left from the shooter's perspective, picture a 1/2 ball shot to the left pocket from the shooters perspective.

if the CB is running with no spin, the balls collide, the OB is then driven to turn CCW and so is the CB, by way of the collision the OB runs toward the pocket with spin.. the spot of impact is oppositte the pocket, The resulting spin of the OB isn't so important but it misdirects due to "throw"

If you can't see how the balls are spinning or ignore that and only see the trajectory, even though the ball is hit on the spot directly opposite to the pocket, it is undercut.. am i right undercut? or wouldthat there be overcut?

a better player will know this and compensate for the throw and also may choose to apply some left or right becaue when the CB hits the back rail it can be directed by way of it's spin and of course he's placing that CB for his next shot.


since he knows this he can apply more or less spin, but to maintain accuracy he needs to compensate for how much his spin throws the OB otherwise the spin produces inacuracy in itsef..

I think if I hit hit bal and was happy with the natural expected route of the CB and wasnt trying to change its trajectorry , then I'd hit the CB wiht some right, then the CB would already be running CCW slightly and this would then send the OB to the pocket rolling without any induced spin.. the CB would already have some CCW due to be hitting on the right, after impact it spins with about the same CCW rotation as the gearing ( theoretically ) matched up..

since the gearing was right there was little sliding action between the balls , as soon as the gearing is different here is some "skid" and throw induced.. That throw takes some practice to gain control over.

If my explanation lacked credibility, please don't insult me, instead try to correct what i said so it rings true in your own words..


for someone who understands the physics of double- clutching and why that reduces transmission fatige, the "gearing" , in pool, is essentially the same principle, Thats how I see it. If you did not understand the physics of doubleclutching then that would make no sense. some will and , some won't get that analogy.
now it gets a bit deeper because as soon as the player is hitting off center, he is also changing the direction of aim.. .. He is aiming for that contact spot opposite the pocket but hes taking itnto account that the spin affects his aim, so that is all happening as well..

to make it simpler to understand som will choose to hit the CB centerball and compensate for the throw of the OB by way of adjusting his aim. thats a different way to approach the same problem. in that case he's allowing the OB to spin due to the collsion and compensating for it in aim rather than using proper gearing..

which is right? maybe it's how you prefer? Im really not sure. It's a lot just to understand the physics.. I think there are lot of good players that understand the reactions better than the physics of why.. they simply practice until it works for them.. some others need to know "why it works that way" I'm in that camp. once I realize this works like this-- and the why, because of the physics of that, then the pieces glue together better, in my mind I know some who are very good players and if I said all that they would understand and perhaps agree, I know others who would look with eyes glazed over, and I'd know by that that I didnt get my point across properly.
 
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Brookeland Bill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Isn't that what happens every successful shot?


Wish you would... I'd like to understand your point.

pj
chgo
I think Snookered gave a good explanation. Throw plays a major role in making shots and allows you to come in contact with the object ball with a fuller shot depending on the position of the cue and object ball.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think Snookered gave a good explanation. Throw plays a major role in making shots and allows you to come in contact with the object ball with a fuller shot depending on the position of the cue and object ball.

So when you say...
The contact point isn’t the ‘contact point’.
...you mean the contact point for a straight in shot (without throw) isn't the same as the contact point for a cut shot (with throw).

That I understand. Thanks.

pj
chgo
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think the spin or "gearing" affects aim as well as the contact point. anytime you are hitting the OB so it is not straight on, and are also hitting the CB center ball you are throwing the object ball and you are causing it to spin..

I think I habitually compensate for that unless I'm using spin to direct the CB after first cushion.. someone else could go ahead explain it all better or in different terms. but I see that as a little "fly in the ointment" to think about.

Here's my take which may not be correct.. but Ill put it into my own words and the "experts" can agree or call me on it , this is just to see if I have it right , I'm not making a statement, I'm learning, and I'm trying to wrap my head around it..

a ball hits to steer the ball towards the left from the shooter's perspective, picture a 1/2 ball shot to the left pocket from the shooters perspective.

if the CB is running with no spin, the balls collide, the OB is then driven to turn CCW and so is the CB, by way of the collision the OB runs toward the pocket with spin.. the spot of impact is oppositte the pocket, The resulting spin of the OB isn't so important but it misdirects due to "throw"

If you can't see how the balls are spinning or ignore that and only see the trajectory, even though the ball is hit on the spot directly opposite to the pocket, it is undercut.. am i right undercut? or wouldthat there be overcut?

a better player will know this and compensate for the throw and also may choose to apply some left or right becaue when the CB hits the back rail it can be directed by way of it's spin and of course he's placing that CB for his next shot.


since he knows this he can apply more or less spin, but to maintain accuracy he needs to compensate for how much his spin throws the OB otherwise the spin produces inacuracy in itsef..

I think if I hit hit bal and was happy with the natural expected route of the CB and wasnt trying to change its trajectorry , then I'd hit the CB wiht some right, then the CB would already be running CCW slightly and this would then send the OB to the pocket rolling without any induced spin.. the CB would already have some CCW due to be hitting on the right, after impact it spins with about the same CCW rotation as the gearing ( theoretically ) matched up..

since the gearing was right there was little sliding action between the balls , as soon as the gearing is different here is some "skid" and throw induced.. That throw takes some practice to gain control over.

If my explanation lacked credibility, please don't insult me, instead try to correct what i said so it rings true in your own words..


for someone who understands the physics of double- clutching and why that reduces transmission fatige, the "gearing" , in pool, is essentially the same principle, Thats how I see it. If you did not understand the physics of doubleclutching then that would make no sense. some will and , some won't get that analogy.
now it gets a bit deeper because as soon as the player is hitting off center, he is also changing the direction of aim.. .. He is aiming for that contact spot opposite the pocket but hes taking itnto account that the spin affects his aim, so that is all happening as well..

to make it simpler to understand som will choose to hit the CB centerball and compensate for the throw of the OB by way of adjusting his aim. thats a different way to approach the same problem. in that case he's allowing the OB to spin due to the collsion and compensating for it in aim rather than using proper gearing..

which is right? maybe it's how you prefer? Im really not sure. It's a lot just to understand the physics.. I think there are lot of good players that understand the reactions better than the physics of why.. they simply practice until it works for them.. some others need to know "why it works that way" I'm in that camp. once I realize this works like this-- and the why, because of the physics of that, then the pieces glue together better, in my mind I know some who are very good players and if I said all that they would understand and perhaps agree, I know others who would look with eyes glazed over, and I'd know by that that I didnt get my point across properly.
what is ccw?
.....................
....................
in college i had no problem with calculus/physics/organic chemistry...etc.
my toughest course was english 101
why
it was hard for me to write a 5 page term paper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
after 2 pages i said what i wanted and found it hard to expand it
i am sure you would have had no problems with that at all....😂
 
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snookered_again

Well-known member
the administrator has set the maximum post length , thats easy to change. its a setting in the user control panel.
It happens to me in often in the political posts, many go on about nothing particularly pool related, but if I start reading a post and dont have time, or it does not interest me, I have the ability to scroll. I don't try to control all the posts themselves, that would be a full time job.
Instead, I just use the mouse and move the scroll wheel. if you dont have a scroll wheel on your mouse, just use the grey bar to the right, slide it downward.
 
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Reactions: bbb

Mensabum

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
The contact point isn’t the ‘contact point’. You’re delusional if your trying to hit one finite point on the spherical object ball with another finite point (contact point) on the spherical cue ball. You’re kidding yourself and have been for decades. I’m not going into greater detail only to tell you you have to change your approach to aiming and hitting the object ball on one side or the other of what the ghost ball leads you to believe where you need to aim.
There's another part of the contact point equation that older players just don't reveal to anyone. I read all these aiming system posts and can't help but laugh. If you're fortunate enuf to know an old player, a real player, not some mouth warrior, he may clue you in to the 2nd part.
 

vincett

Member
There's another part of the contact point equation that older players just don't reveal to anyone. I read all these aiming system posts and can't help but laugh. If you're fortunate enuf to know an old player, a real player, not some mouth warrior, he may clue you in to the 2nd part.
The Pocket has an opening which funnels inward. If you hit the pocket at the largest throat opening with wrong angle and spins, the pocket rejects the OB.

I take the Contact points being as a smaller OB, and that is that. However, throw and spins will do the rest of the equations as I said above

I judge this size of the Contact Ball from the most inner part or both inner corner of the pocket
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There's another part of the contact point equation that older players just don't reveal to anyone. I read all these aiming system posts and can't help but laugh. If you're fortunate enuf to know an old player, a real player, not some mouth warrior, he may clue you in to the 2nd part.
I suspect your "secret" has been discussed here several times before. Why not just explain what it is?
 

snookered_again

Well-known member
it kind of equates to the old school way of thinking that if you share the details of your "trade" you weaken yourself by opening yourself up to competition. 1930's mentality.

For some old timers, the philosophy that they grew up under is slow to die off..
I tend to think in the school of that the free sharing of information is a good thing, some feel they must protect it because they grew up in a different era.

Some thoughts and ideas and conversations take a few paragraphs , some get frustrated and cannot focus past a few lines. I see it a lot in the texts from younger people, lots of misspelling, poor use of grammar etc. frustration if presented with any length because they haven't masterd the ability to maintain focus.

some graduate now, without the ability to use full sentences. Missing out in school through covid contributed to the disability, In many cases.

I know a young lady, she's 20 and I watched her grow up, now she is having serous mental health issues and also addicted to programs like tick tock, they require short texts, bits of info but nothing of much depth, e's loosing sleep over it and it's messing her up to te point where she's got some serious issues that affect her ability to hold down a job.

I see a lot of news channels following thise same patterns. Dumbed down news, mostly complaining about this or that in very short and repetitive phrases. newspapers had a lot more content but things changed to suit the type of audience that the commercial ad purchasers want to attract.

when did you last see a car commercial that gave you any in depth info about their new product? when did you last see a fat girl in a new car commercial ? the ads are written to target a rather dumb audience because they fit the advertiser's target. so it's zoom zoom..
 

xradarx

Rādär knows when to release the arrow
Silver Member
“‘Old timers’ secrets” are kept close to their vests.
There are no synoptic versions available.
Players are always wanting something for nothing and are unwilling to even put in the time required to debunk falsehoods or the posted versions.
Aiming cannot be explained simplistically.
There is no magic potion available either.
A real old timer in the flesh, who did and still is able to fit the label.
I am the calculator and the measuring stick in person.
Radar
 
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