Controlled 9-Ball Break - Playing Position for the One Ball

F

FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm really good at racking 9-ball. I learned a technique that allows me to rack them super tight and make the corner ball practically every time.

Despite my racking abilities, I cannot figure out how to play position for a shot on the one ball on a bar box. I've watched plenty of Corey Deuel videos where he leaves himself a shot on the one in the side but I can't seem to reproduce it without leaving a huge cluster at the foot of the table.

I think the difference is that Corey is using a racking template which explodes the balls a little more than a wooden rack. Also, he's playing on newly setup tournament tables which are likely faster than the tables I play on. So his balls spread much better with a softer break. In order to get the same spread on my tables I need to hit the break slightly harder which leaves the one in a poor position.

I've tried breaking at soft, medium, and medium-hard speeds and I just can't seem to get a good leave on the one. I've also tried changing my cue ball position slightly but if you move it too much the wing ball no longer goes in. Additionally, I've tried adjusting the spin on the cue ball from high to low and everywhere in between which affects the direction of the one ball but still, no good results. I've never really messed around with side spin, maybe I'll try that next.

So far, the only thing that works is if I use extreme draw with a medium-soft speed to draw the cue ball to the head rail and back to the center of the table for a shot on the one in the side. This is not practical since it's too easy to scratch. Plus a lot of times I end up with a backcut on the one forcing me to send the cue ball around the table and into traffic.

The other thing that works is if the balls are racking a little looser than usual and I am able to position the cue ball a diamond length off the side rail when breaking. In this case the one usually comes down toward the corner pocket at the head of the table and is easy to play position for.

With a typical tight rack I usually break on the line from the corner pocket to the head ball. With an extremely tight rack I break from the side rail but the balls rarely rack tight enough for the side rail break. This is the other difference between my break and Corey's.

Can anyone give me a few pointers? Does anyone know of any videos where players are using wooden racks on bar tables and consistently playing good position on the one?

Thanks guys, have a Happy Thanksgiving! My favorite time of year for pool :)
 
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FeelDaShot said:
I'm really good at racking 9-ball. I learned a technique that allows me rack them super tight and make the corner ball practically every time.

Despite my racking abilities, I cannot figure out how to play position for a shot on the one ball on a bar box. I've watched plenty of Corey Deuel videos where he leaves himself a shot on the one in the side but I can't seem to reproduce it without leaving a huge cluster at the foot of the table.

I think the difference is that Corey is using a racking template which explodes the balls a little more than a wooden rack. Also, he's playing on newly setup tournament tables which are likely faster than the tables I play on. So his balls spread much better with a softer break. In order to get the same spread on my tables I need to hit the break slightly harder which leaves the one in a poor position.

I've tried breaking at soft, medium, and medium-hard speeds and I just can't seem to get a good leave on the one. I've also tried changing my cue ball position slightly but if you move it too much the wing ball no longer goes in. Additionally, I've tried adjusting the spin on the cue ball from high to low and everywhere in between which affects the direction of the one ball but still, no good results. I've never really messed around with side spin, maybe I'll try that next.

So far, the only thing that works is if I use extreme draw with a medium-soft speed to draw the cue ball to the head rail and back to the center of the table for a shot on the one in the side. This is not practical since it's too easy to scratch. Plus a lot of times I end up with a backcut on the one forcing me to send the cue ball around the table and into traffic.

The other thing that works is if the balls are racking a little looser than usual and I am able to position the cue ball a diamond length off the side rail when breaking. In this case the one usually comes down toward the corner pocket at the head of the table and is easy to play position for.

With a typical tight rack I usually break on the line from the corner pocket to the head ball. With an extremely tight rack I break from the side rail but the balls rarely rack tight enough for the side rail break. This is the other difference between my break and Corey's.

Can anyone give me a few pointers? Does anyone know of any videos where players are using wooden racks on bar tables and consistently playing good position on the one?

Thanks guys, have a Happy Thanksgiving! My favorite time of year for pool :)
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If you are playing an opponent, as in a 1-on-1 session, tournament, or league play, you won't likely be racking your own which means you won't likely be getting a super tight rack like you might be able to do when racking for yourself. That means a softer break is likely out of the question, as that would likely be frowned upon and lead to some very long a messy games, if not downright illegal, in league 9-ball play anyway.

Usually on a harder 9-ball break with a decently tight rack, placing the cue ball just a 3-4 inches off the side cushion and striking the 1-ball squarely (as in aiming to shoot the 1-ball towards the 1st end rail diamond from the corner pocket), the 1-ball will either head towards the opposite side pocket, or off the side rail ending up somewhere near the head corner pocket where you are breaking from.

Obviously, controlling the cue ball to try to ensure it ends up near the middle of the table or at least near/above the headstring, may be more predictable than being able to control where the 1-ball will end up on the break.

Generally, my opinion is that those players who are taking a great amount of time trying to perfect the break, have already mastered the ability to consistently run out a full rack, otherwise it makes no sense to spend so much of your pool practice time worrying about perfecting your break and trying to leave yourself a shot on the lowest ball, although it is nice when it happens.
 
ChrisinNC said:
If you are playing an opponent, as in a 1-on-1 session, tournament, or league play, you won't likely be racking your own which means you won't likely be getting a super tight rack like you might be able to do when racking for yourself. That means a softer break is likely out of the question, as that would likely be frowned upon and lead to some very long a messy games, if not downright illegal, in league 9-ball play anyway.

Usually on a harder 9-ball break with a decently tight rack, placing the cue ball just a 3-4 inches off the side cushion and striking the 1-ball squarely (as in aiming to shoot the 1-ball towards the 1st end rail diamond from the corner pocket), the 1-ball will either head towards the opposite side pocket, or off the side rail ending up somewhere near the head corner pocket where you are breaking from.

Obviously, controlling the cue ball to try to ensure it ends up near the middle of the table or at least near/above the headstring, may be more predictable than being able to control where the 1-ball will end up on the break.

Generally, my opinion is that those players who are taking a great amount of time trying to perfect the break, have already mastered the ability to consistently run out a full rack, otherwise it makes no sense to spend so much of your pool practice time worrying about perfecting your break and trying to leave yourself a shot on the lowest ball, although it is nice when it happens.
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I'm talking about racking my own only, sorry for the confusion. This is the case in most tournaments and gambling sessions I play in. I haven't "mastered" the run out game yet but with a good spread on a bar box I'm a favorite to get out. Getting shape on the one is key. Even if I can't get out it's still important to have a shot at the one to maintain control of the table.
 
How about working from the other direction: see where the 1b is going, then try to get shape there?

In my experience...and on my table, I try to get CB above headstrong and off to either side. The 1 usually ends up near the head rail and gets killed into a top corner pocket, not in the side...so center table with CB is no good.

Square peg/ round hole, ya know?
 
Black-Balled said:
How about working from the other direction: see where the 1b is going, then try to get shape there?

In my experience...and on my table, I try to get CB above headstrong and off to either side. The 1 usually ends up near the head rail and gets killed into a top corner pocket, not in the side...so center table with CB is no good.

Square peg/ round hole, ya know?
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Yes, that's what I've been trying to do but it's not working very well lol. Especially since any change you make to the cue ball's speed or spin changes the one ball's location.

I assume you must have a 9 footer at your house? On a bar box I can't reproduce that kind of a break unless I really hit 'em hard which often eliminates the controlled aspect of the break. I'm hoping there is something I'm overlooking here...
 
I usually play the break from the head-string at the second diamond (right side break). Found myself scratching in the opposite side alot. What I did was speed up just a little with some draw to pull the cue ball to the 1st diamond below that side pocket. I can do this pretty regular, the one usually ends up in the kitchen somewhere as does the cueball, so I almost always am able to see the 1...I don't worry so much about making a ball, if hit solidly I usually make a ball anyway.
 
Here is a layout from the book titled, "The GREAT Break Shot". It is a 180 page book on the Break Shot, in all the games we play. This particular shot will leave the 1 ball close to the corner pocket. If you have parked Whitey in the middle of the table, & you don't get hooked, you will have a shot.
 

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Every table is different. Take the cue ball and hit the rack with the CB at the 2Y, 1X point and watch where the wing ball goes. Most will hit short of the corner pocket. Now, you've got to hit with a draw or/and move the CB over to the rail somewhat until the wing ball goes in. The closer the CB in at the 2,1 position, the one ball will go to the head rail. Now you can judge your speed by where the one ball goes. If you stop the CB in the middle, the one ball should be an easy shot.
 
Watch that young kid from Russia....Fedor Gorst

I watched him hit hard then park the cb five times in a row on almost the exact same spot during a pro tournament at Dog's in June. Amazing. He also ran out 4 times after doing that, so he's got that goin' for him, too. I'm guessing there's some video of him breaking.

Awesome for such a punkster to do that so well. He's someone to watch, I'd say.


Jeff Livingston


EDIT: From azb front page news:

sma_14287-fedor-gorst-goes-all-the-way.jpg
 
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ceebee said:
Here is a layout from the book titled, "The GREAT Break Shot". It is a 180 page book on the Break Shot, in all the games we play. This particular shot will leave the 1 ball close to the corner pocket. If you have parked Whitey in the middle of the table, & you don't get hooked, you will have a shot.
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Interesting layout diagram but this is for a cut break. On a standard break from this cue ball position, the headball will go directly toward the corner pocket which is perfect as long as you don't over hit it. Unfortunately, I usually need the cue ball closer to the rail to make the wingball which changes the direction of the headball.
 
chefjeff said:
Watch that young kid from Russia....Fedor Gorst

I watched him hit hard then park the cb five times in a row on almost the exact same spot during a pro tournament at Dog's in June. Amazing. He also ran out 4 times after doing that, so he's got that goin' for him, too. I'm guessing there's some video of him breaking.

Awesome for such a punkster to do that so well. He's someone to watch, I'd say.


Jeff Livingston


EDIT: From azb front page news:

sma_14287-fedor-gorst-goes-all-the-way.jpg
Click to expand...


Thanks Jeff, I'll do some research on Fedor's break. I assume he only plays on big tables though? Surprisingly, the big table break doesn't scale down to the bar table very well.
 
denwhit said:
Every table is different. Take the cue ball and hit the rack with the CB at the 2Y, 1X point and watch where the wing ball goes. Most will hit short of the corner pocket. Now, you've got to hit with a draw or/and move the CB over to the rail somewhat until the wing ball goes in. The closer the CB in at the 2,1 position, the one ball will go to the head rail. Now you can judge your speed by where the one ball goes. If you stop the CB in the middle, the one ball should be an easy shot.
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I appreciate the advice but I'm having trouble understanding it lol. Can you elaborate?
 
Mkindsv said:
I usually play the break from the head-string at the second diamond (right side break). Found myself scratching in the opposite side alot. What I did was speed up just a little with some draw to pull the cue ball to the 1st diamond below that side pocket. I can do this pretty regular, the one usually ends up in the kitchen somewhere as does the cueball, so I almost always am able to see the 1...I don't worry so much about making a ball, if hit solidly I usually make a ball anyway.
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I've actually heard this before too. When you say 1 diamond below the side pocket I assume you mean 1 diamond closer to the foot end of the table. I'm gonna practice this and see what happens.

I guess you have to hit the headball slightly off center to achieve this. Whatever works is fine with me...
 
FeelDaShot said:
I appreciate the advice but I'm having trouble understanding it lol. Can you elaborate?
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Some tables, you can hit a "stop" shot into the one ball from the 2Y, 1X position and the wing ball will go into the corner with the 1 ball heading to the opposite head corner pocket. My table will not do that. I have to move the CB more to the side rail about 1/2 diamond away. If the wing ball doesn't go that way, you've got to add a draw stroke to push the wing ball toward the hole. I think this is why most pros break from the side rail. But, it all depends on the particular table, humidity, temperature, etc.. My pool teacher can make the wing ball consistency every time in about 10 minutes of breaking the rack and figuring it all out. Find a great teacher for the table you play on.
 
Black-Balled said:
What is the secret...and does it work on most of the tables you race on?
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The science is basically explained in Joe Tucker's DVD except there are a few small gaps he overlooked regarding the back 3 balls.

As I'm sure most of you know, the science is only half the battle. Getting the balls to freeze is an entirely different challenge. My method is something I would have to show you in person, it's too difficult to describe in words. It sort of involves leaving the balls loose in the rack and pumping/vibrating rapidly until they freeze together on their own. Then you feather back the headball (if allowed).

I can do it on pretty much any table if I'm allowed to feather the headball back into the rack. On about 60% of tables I can do it quickly without feathering the headball. On about 10% of tables the balls don't cooperate well and it would take too much time to get them to freeze (however I could if I had to and had enough patience).

Also, if I'm nervous and my hands are shaky or clamy I really struggle regardless of the conditions. You have to be calm, patient, and diligent.
 
FeelDaShot said:
The science is basically explained in Joe Tucker's DVD except there are a few small gaps he overlooked regarding the back 3 balls.
Click to expand...
I also have a good summary of all of the important effects and strategies in the online videos and articles here:

9-ball racking and breaking strategies


FeelDaShot said:
As I'm sure most of you know, the science is only half the battle. Getting the balls to freeze is an entirely different challenge. My method is something I would have to show you in person, it's too difficult to describe in words. It sort of involves leaving the balls loose in the rack and pumping/vibrating rapidly until they freeze together on their own. Then you feather back the headball (if allowed).
Click to expand...
FYI, several strategies for getting a tight rack are described here:

how to get a tight rack

Enjoy,
Dave
 
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