Cool Dr.Dave racking cheat/no-cheat vid.............

You got it right!

Nick B said:
If someone doesn't believe that SVB can hit them hard and get good results then they should rewatch the TAR race to 100 with Donny Mills on his home table. Donny was soft braking and SVB after a slow start started to crush the rack and run away with it.
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That was a great match. Donny has had a open invitation to play anyone on his home table except SVB.., and its because of SVB's break, you cant spot it.

SVB doesn't need to cheat, he's the best there is anyway. KO, Chang, Dennis, WU and a few others are equal on any given day, but none are better.
 
Whats the problem?

Bob Jewett said:
And that's just one symptom of why the break at nine ball is a problem.
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With all the examples and all the complaints no one is running lots of racks. If the break is so easy where are the big packages? 2 or 3 racks, that's a problem?

Whenever theres a bid run its the same guys, SVB, Dennis, Shaw and who? 2 or 3 guys running racks is a problem, maybe not.
 
Nick B said:
This was always my issue with the thread. If a really good (almost perfect) rack ensure a wing ball...why would I try and cheat. Fewer variables in a good rack every time. Then place cue ball in same and regulate speed to make ball and one ball placement. Tadda.

If someone doesn't believe that SVB can hit them hard and get good results then they should rewatch the TAR race to 100 with Donny Mills on his home table. Donny was soft braking and SVB after a slow start started to crush the rack and run away with it.
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I would assume (when using a triangle rack like at Derby) that it's much easier to create an optimal rack with gaps than it is to get a perfectly frozen rack.
 
BRussell said:
Question: Where does all the talk about how gaps can help you to make a ball come from? Is that from Joe Tucker's stuff? Dr. Dave finds that it's basically never helpful to have a gap, if I'm understanding the video.
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Racking Secrets was incorporated as part of Joe Tuckers The Great Break Shot book.

The rack that was in the picture taken by Shaw was a "no go" rack according to the book. I couldn't get the wing to fly on my 9' table with worn HR and 10 year old Aramith balls in excellent shape. I think the only way to know for sure is to rack it up on those tables at the Derby.

FTR, in my opinion Shane was cheating.
 
BeiberLvr said:
I would assume (when using a triangle rack like at Derby) that it's much easier to create an optimal rack with gaps than it is to get a perfectly frozen rack.
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Maybe but still more variables. Unless the balls are bad (unlikely) or well worn (unlikely) even hand tight is better than the original photo to reproduce while everyone is watching you.
 
Dave, it looks like your breaks were ~18 mph soft-med breaks in the video. Shane looked like he was doing a 8-ball/10-ball style power break at ~22 mph and popping the cue ball. It seems your video might have played with typical Joe Tucker scenarios but perhaps omitted that power variable in the testing. I’m not predicting whether it alters the conclusions but am suggesting it may call doubt into the experiment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
MattPoland said:
Dave, it looks like your breaks were ~18 mph soft-med breaks in the video. Shane looked like he was doing a 8-ball/10-ball style power break at ~22 mph and popping the cue ball. It seems your video might have played with typical Joe Tucker scenarios but perhaps omitted that power variable in the testing. I’m not predicting whether it alters the conclusions but am suggesting it may call doubt into the experiment.
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In the beginning of the video, I hit the side breaks over a wide range of speeds from soft to close to Shane speed and the wing ball motion did not change. You are probably right that I should have done the same with the breaks from the box, but my arm was already hurting at that point, and I didn’t expect the results to vary. I plan to do some testing this weekend, so maybe I’ll look more closely at speed differences, with and without gaps in different places.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
In the beginning of the video, I hit the side breaks over a wide range of speeds from soft to close to Shane speed and the wing ball motion did not change. You are probably right that I should have done the same with the breaks from the box, but my arm was already hurting at that point, and I didn’t expect the results to vary. I plan to do some testing this weekend, so maybe I’ll look more closely at speed differences, with and without gaps in different places.



Regards,

Dave
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I’ve done similar theorycrafting work targeted at hyperbole so I appreciate the effort and the strain of that effort. Thanks for your contributions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Coincidence, I spent some good time really practicing my 9 break today and had very similar result.

-A good Wooden rack

I break with the cue ball almost one diamond away from the rail, use a small amount top left but aim a little to the right of the 1 ball. I had to do it pretty soft for a while but I was getting that cue ball to freeze real well with the wing ball going about half the time. Got better at putting speed to it and sometimes started making the 1 ball in the side.

Few things that seem to go wrong with my method

-If you don't get a ball you leave them a good table with a shot at the one.

-if your top left gets away from you, you can go through the rack or scratch in one of the side pockets. Gotta know your power limit for control or it seems to be very punishing.

The 9 ball about half the time would go towards the left corner pocket with some 2-3 balls around it. Never got a 9 break but it made for an easy run out sometimes with a combo, carom, whatever. The bottom 3 balls quite often had a gap some where in between them I couldn't fix.

You using center ball Dr.Dave?

Great video as awlays, Thanks!
 
lakeman77 said:
Dr Dave, does this work on a 7 ft table? or what would you suggest for 7ft tables ?
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On a smaller table, because the balls are the same size, the wing ball will tend to go a little lower than normal, in which case a more centered hit (away from the side rail) might be required.

Also, I will be creating another video soon with some additional information that was lacking in this current video.

Stay tuned,
Dave
 
Great video. Very informative.

Question for you...do you find that the balls rack tighter having a trained table? The way that the balls broke on some of your lighter-speed breaks reminded me of breaking with a magic rack.

Thoughts?
 
MJB said:
Great video. Very informative.

Question for you...do you find that the balls rack tighter having a trained table? The way that the balls broke on some of your lighter-speed breaks reminded me of breaking with a magic rack.

Thoughts?
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With a little care (but very little time) I can get a tight rack with all balls touching every time on my trained table, without using a racking triangle or template. For info and demonstrations on how to do it, see:

how to get a tight rack

Enjoy,
Dave
 
It is great that you correct your own findings. A lot of people would never do that. It only adds to the value and credibility of your site - thank you.
 
Meucciplayer said:
It is great that you correct your own findings. A lot of people would never do that. It only adds to the value and credibility of your site - thank you.
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Honestly, I was a little embarrassed when somebody on YouTube helped me discover that I had a rack alignment problem in the first video, explaining the unusual wing ball action.

Thank you for the supportive words,
Dave
 
FYI, in the video descriptions of my recent YouTube posts (part 1, part 2), I've added links to a bunch of relevant resources so everything would be available in one place. Here are some of the things of interest:

How to Get a Tight Rack and How to Train a Table:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/break.html#tight

Pattern Racking Strategy:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/break.html#racking

Point in the DDC match where Jayson accuses Shane of cheating:
https://youtu.be/nLa8P3rOzY0?t=38m3s

Photo Jayson took of Shane's rack with his phone:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/images/Jayson_photo_of_Shane_rack.jpg

Quote from Shane in response to controversy (from Facebook):
“If anyone think I was cheating then prove it. Where is the rules stating no gaps in the rack? Or you can or can’t make a ball on the break? Anyone? Derby city rules, all it says rack your own, no pattern racking. No rules has been broken.”

Now everything is in an easy-to-find place here too.

Regards,
Dave
 
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