Cored forearms vs. solid

[Fat Ivory]

I appreciate that some woods, such as Ebony may need to be cored to reach a target weight, and some such as Tulipwood are cored to prevent warpage.

But damn, many builders core them all, except maple, citing consistency of hit as the payoff. But to me that's not a payoff, it's a liability. I think coring results in generic cues, lacking character. Why remove the interesting hit characteristcs of exotics? I don't want the special feel of Bacote replaced with maple. I don't want my Coco-bolo cue to hit like my Bloodwood.

And I'm voting with my bucks - so does anyone have a list of builders who do not routinely core everything in sight?

 

[ironchef.]

Dennis Searing refuses to core any of the cues he makes. I believe Hercek doesn't core his cues because of his full splicing technique but don't quote me on that.

 

[bruin70]

a cored ebony still feels way different than a maple. i prefer all hardwoods cored, because while i might like a different hit, i don't like extremes, and there is enough difference to satisfy me with a cored cue. kinda like why i prefer collared SS or collared ivory joints. the collar provides enough of what i seek without having to deal with the harsher hit of full.

i have also come to admire maple as all around THE best hitting wood, so i welcome a maple core.

anyway,,,,you can always order full.

 

[pawnmon]

Tony at Black Boar cores everything. Says he does it for structural integrity, resistance to warpage, consistent hit characteristics. Hard to argue with perfection IMO.

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

This is a great topic! I think that both methods have valid arguments. However, coring can be used to avoid doing certain things correctly like aging the wood properly or picking out superior pieces for playability...also, coring a cue means being able to make them more quickly in many cases. I am not saying that everyone who cores cues does so to cut corners because when it is done for the right reasons, it can result in a great cue.

With that said, I am a fan of solid forearms. If you want a cue to be 18oz, you shouldn't choose ebony. On the other hand, if you want a 21oz cue, you souldn't choose maple and use a heavy weight screw. I think part of the art of making a great cue is in choosing the materials that will more easily produce the desired hit, balance, and weight. As far as stability, hit, balance, weight distribution, and resistance to warpage, the full splice or butterfly splices are the best.
Deno

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

This is a great topic! I think that both methods have valid arguments. However, coring can be used to avoid doing certain things correctly like aging the wood properly or picking out superior pieces for playability...also, coring a cue means being able to make them more quickly in many cases. I am not saying that everyone who cores cues does so to cut corners because when it is done for the right reasons, it can result in a great cue.

With that said, I am a fan of solid forearms. If you want a cue to be 18oz, you shouldn't choose ebony. On the other hand, if you want a 21oz cue, you souldn't choose maple and use a heavy weight screw. I think part of the art of making a great cue is in choosing the materials that will more easily produce the desired hit, balance, and weight. As far as stability, hit, balance, weight distribution, and resistance to warpage, the full splice or butterfly splices are the best.
Deno

Hey Deno,care to enlighten me on steamed Pear shafts?

 

[bruin70]

This is a great,,,,,

With that said, I am a fan of solid forearms. If you want a cue to be 18oz, you shouldn't choose ebony. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Deno

however,,,,a player who likes 18oz cues shouldn't have to be relegated only to maple cues if he also wants the hardness of ebony cored forearms.

i, for instance, love 18 cues. but i think they need a little "muscle" to drive the cb. a HARDER hit provides that. i think the unique combination of light cue + hard hit is awesome. i have one such cue, and everyone drools over the hit.

 

[titlistsucker]

Hey Deno,care to enlighten me on steamed Pear shafts?

Steam Pear Shafts are commonly used for English Billiard cues and snooker Cues in the early part of the century. It is a very desirable as the steam pear shaft is consistently smooth and slides off you hand, does not seem to attract dirt and produces a very sweet hit. However steam pear wood is inherently very unstable, hence many of the steam pear shaft became easily warped through time. The most famous Steam Pear Shafted Cue would be what is known as the J P Mannock. This cue was designed by a billiards instructor, and is a one piece cue (2 pc cues never caught on in UK till 50s) with multiple fullsplice and machine splice.
Among Ash, Maple, Greenheart and Pear, the Pear wood is one of the smoothest and nicest to play with. A good piece of Pear-wood will consistently play a true shot and does not stick to your hand, hence Mannock's claim to have produced an "anti-grip" cue. He designed the unusual splicing arrangement in the way that he did because of the nature of the wood used. To make the Pear stiff enough to use, the hand splices on the base supplemented the machine splices, extending the length of the butt from 18" to approximately 23" thereby reducing the length of the shaft.
The construction was to stabilise the shaft. This Cue was also known as the anti-grip cue,

I have own JP Mannocks before, and they command a premium now. However i never seen Steam Pear Wood being used since the World War, and i do not think that American Cues ever used this material.

Hope this answers your question.

Bgrds
RC

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

Steam Pear Shafts are commonly used for English Billiard cues and snooker Cues in the early part of the century. It is a very desirable as the steam pear shaft is consistently smooth and slides off you hand, does not seem to attract dirt and produces a very sweet hit. However steam pear wood is inherently very unstable, hence many of the steam pear shaft became easily warped through time. The most famous Steam Pear Shafted Cue would be what is known as the J P Mannock. This cue was designed by a billiards instructor, and is a one piece cue (2 pc cues never caught on in UK till 50s) with multiple fullsplice and machine splice.
Among Ash, Maple, Greenheart and Pear, the Pear wood is one of the smoothest and nicest to play with. A good piece of Pear-wood will consistently play a true shot and does not stick to your hand, hence Mannock's claim to have produced an "anti-grip" cue. He designed the unusual splicing arrangement in the way that he did because of the nature of the wood used. To make the Pear stiff enough to use, the hand splices on the base supplemented the machine splices, extending the length of the butt from 18" to approximately 23" thereby reducing the length of the shaft.
The construction was to stabilise the shaft. This Cue was also known as the anti-grip cue,

I have own JP Mannocks before, and they command a premium now. However i never seen Steam Pear Wood being used since the World War, and i do not think that American Cues ever used this material.

Hope this answers your question.

Bgrds
RC

Thanks for the information,it is much appreciated.

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

Hey Deno,care to enlighten me on steamed Pear shafts?

...what Titlistsucker said!
Deno

 

[cueman]

I for one almost never core a forearm of a cue. Those who want the hard hit of Ebony will not like the hit if cored. I have stayed away from using certain woods in the forearm that are weak or very prone to warping. I have thought about coring some of those in order to be able to use them for a forearm, but have not done it yet. I can't say all my cues hit the same, because my ebony forearm cues hit a bit different than my maple forearm cues do. So I have spent 17 years putting light weight maple handles with ebony or coco-bolo forearms and using a aluminum wrap joint screw instead of steel to keep the weight down. I also use a titanium main joint screw in the ebony or coco bolo cues.
In the earlier years when a lot started coring I thought to myself it may cause problems down the road so I stayed away from it. Well it appears it was not as big of a problem as I thought it might become as those cues are still holding up after a decade or so. That is why I might consider coring a forearm now if someone twisted my arm a little, but prefer to use solid wood for the forearms.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[lord_shar]

...<SNIP>...

And I'm voting with my bucks - so does anyone have a list of builders who do not routinely core everything in sight?

Andy Gilbert is another cue maker who uses full splice construction. His point work is superb. The cue I just received from him has the best hit of any cue I've tested so far.

 

[buddha162]

And I'm voting with my bucks - so does anyone have a list of builders who do not routinely core everything in sight?

From what I understand, Kerry Zeiler (Zylr) is an adamant proponent of letting specific woods hit the way they were made to hit, and does not core anything.

Skip Weston also does not core his cues, and I'm pretty sure Paul Fanelli does not as well.

-Roger

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

however,,,,a player who likes 18oz cues shouldn't have to be relegated only to maple cues if he also wants the hardness of ebony cored forearms.

i, for instance, love 18 cues. but i think they need a little "muscle" to drive the cb. a HARDER hit provides that. i think the unique combination of light cue + hard hit is awesome. i have one such cue, and everyone drools over the hit.

There are plenty of hard hitting lighter woods from which to choose. Changing tip and ferrule configurations can also have a profound impact on the "hit" of a cue, making it play harder or softer.
Deno

 

[JoeyInCali]

From what I understand, Kerry Zeiler (Zylr) is an adamant proponent of letting specific woods hit the way they were made to hit, and does not core anything.



-Roger

The only cue he's cored is his version of Black Beauty popularized by Corsair.
Black paper-based phenolic core ( not maple and am not telling ) and it hit a ton and a half. It was a point a pocket stick. I mean it just hit.
If you bring in a cored bocote cue for repair, he might just throw it in the trash.
I owned a cored bocote once. The makers who are artists ( they make real out of this world pretty cues ) must not know what a good hit is.

 

[Rich R.]

But damn, many builders core them all, except maple, citing consistency of hit as the payoff. But to me that's not a payoff, it's a liability.

I have to disagree.

If I like the work of a certain cue maker, who cores their cues, I know I can pick any of their available cues, or order a new cue, without any worry about how that cue will hit. They will all have a consistant hit.

Especially when ordering a custom cue, I know I will like the hit, before the cue is built.

This is a big payoff.

From other cue makers, each cue has something of an individual feel to it, which is fine if you are just collecting. But if you order a custom $3K cue, you don't know how it will hit until you get it.
What if you don't like it?
You become a dealer.

 

[Fat Ivory]

I have to disagree.

If I like the work of a certain cue maker, who cores their cues, I know I can pick any of their available cues, or order a new cue, without any worry about how that cue will hit. They will all have a consistant hit.

Especially when ordering a custom cue, I know I will like the hit, before the cue is built.

This is a big payoff.

From other cue makers, each cue has something of an individual feel to it, which is fine if you are just collecting. But if you order a custom $3K cue, you don't know how it will hit until you get it.
What if you don't like it?
You become a dealer.

We do absolutely disagree. I will never want my Coco-bolo to hit like Maple. I'll always take that slight gamble on the hit or take one off the shelf, or deal with a known builder. And for a person who's building a collection, and likes to play, why have them all hit alike?

Please understand: I'm not bashing Maple, it's the standard measure of other woods.

 

[TyrLeon]

Recently I was at PFD cues dropping off a cue to be refinished and while talking to Paul he said that he cores all of his cues. He says its to prevent warpage and allow him to use exotic woods for parts of the cue (forearms especially). Certain woods do not have the structural integrity to be used as a forearm. As for my vote, if it hits good and looks good I don't really care how it was put together, as long as it stays together.

 

[bruin70]

i've played with full ebony, cocobola, and bocote.

personnal pref, but i didn't fancy any of them. ebony was the easiest to use but i found bocote to be incredibly dense, and coco to be very "thuddy"(hated it).

i understand the desire to play with a "natural" cue,,,,it's an appreciation of the different woods and what they have to offer. ultimately, it's all about feel and playability for me,,,,and comfort. at the very least, i would have to get spliced maple point to molify the hit of the harder woods.

 

[bruin70]

There are plenty of hard hitting lighter woods from which to choose. Changing tip and ferrule configurations can also have a profound impact on the "hit" of a cue, making it play harder or softer.
Deno

that's ok, but i like to feel it in the joint and body, not the tip. matter of fact, this might sound weird, but i like softer plastic ferrules(cerocite). and hate aegis.

what are some lighter hard hitting woods.

BTW,,,,I ABSOLUTELY LOVE MY BUBINGA!!!!!(it does have 6 spliced maple points, though)