Correcting off-eye dominance issues

[Stoney]

I have a lower skill level player who wears glasses and is right handed but left eye dominant. In addition she holds her head slightly cocked to one side and not perpendicular to the cue. All in all a real nightmare when you have limited time to work with her and, frankly, I lack the experience to know where to start in helping her to correct these problems.

Anyone have any suggestions as to where to start? I stress a consistent pre-shot routine with all of my players but I need to know what corrective actions to take to help her establish a good pre-shot routine with the eye dominance issues she has.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[pooltchr]

Without seeing her, it is difficult to pinpoint the problem. In my experience, students who have a problem getting their head in the proper position over the cue usually need some adjustment in their stance. It may be that they are too far from the cue, or trying to stand at the wrong angle. She may also be trying to bend down to the cue, rather than using her legs to lower her head.
Don't worry so much about eye dominence, and just get her head where she can actually see a straight line extending out beyond the cue. Then help her position her body to allow her to comfortably get her head there every time.

Hope that helps.

Steve

 

[triley41395]

Make her focus on closing her left eye.In trap shooting some guys/gals who are right shooters but left eye dominant wear a patch on their left eye or put a piece of duct tape on their left lense of their glasses. I'm not sure this approach will work for pool but it may.

 

[Stoney]

........In my experience, students who have a problem getting their head in the proper position over the cue usually need some adjustment in their stance. It may be that they are too far from the cue, or trying to stand at the wrong angle. She may also be trying to bend down to the cue, rather than using her legs to lower her head.........
Hope that helps.

Steve

Thanks for the suggestions. She is a little "hippy" after 4 kids so she does crowd her stance and this causes her to stand a little to high over the cue. These are two issues I can deal with as well as well as the other things you mentioned.

One thing though - and I have heard this from several sources - about not worrying about eye dominance. I know there are great shooters who are off-eye dominant but it seems to me that this issue would require a lot of compensation in aiming, alignment and to some degree stroke. If this is the case compensating for this would complicate the process of learning the basics of the game. Not arguing here, just questioning where my thinking is off track.

Again, thanks for the suggestions.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[Dead Crab]

There is a reason Ralf Soquet and many other top players cock their head. It takes one of their eyes sufficiently out of the field of view, and they are essentially shooting with a single eye. Another alternative is closing one eye, then the dominance issue is moot, but some people can't do this comfortably.

I would suggest focusing on whether or not she is visualizing a straight line.

1. Set a screw on it's head several feet away on the table.
2. Have her set up in stance and bridge and point the cue at this target
3. Have her freeze this position
4. String a line along the long axis of her cue shaft, and stretch it down the table. She can fix the string in her "back" hand, while you stretch it. Mason's twine works well.
5. If the string hits the screw, don't have her change anything
6. If the cue does not line up with the target, experiment with different head positions until a position is found where it does.

Another problem is the glasses, as they will distort the image if you are not looking straight through them. When you shoot pool, you generally look through the glasses above the intended viewpoint. The balls down table should look perfectly round. If they are ovals, the glasses position will need to be adjusted until they look round. Contact lenses are the best solution. I "jack up" my glasses by elevating the nose bridge and tilting the earpieces down. I look silly, but I can see.

In short, making her orient her eyes in the "standard" position may not be right for her.

Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor

Claimer: I have read just about everything there is on the subject of eye dominance, aiming and sports, and I have the same problem as your student.

 

[Stoney]

Make her focus on closing her left eye.In trap shooting some guys/gals who are right shooters but left eye dominant wear a patch on their left eye or put a piece of duct tape on their left lense of their glasses. I'm not sure this approach will work for pool but it may.

Now that you mention it I remember from somewhere about the patching thing. Being a female she may not go for that but as part of the process of helping her I'm willing to try anything.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[Stoney]

.........
1. Set a screw on it's head several feet away on the table.
2. Have her set up in stance and bridge and point the cue at this target
3. Have her freeze this position
4. String a line along the long axis of her cue shaft, and stretch it down the table. She can fix the string in her "back" hand, while you stretch it. Mason's twine works well.
5. If the string hits the screw, don't have her change anything
6. If the cue does not line up with the target, experiment with different head positions until a position is found where it does............

I have read various "tests" for eye dominance but this one really makes sense in the context of playing pool. Before I do anything else with her I am going to try this. I was leaning toward a "shotgun" approach to the situation but this should help define the problem and reduce the trial and error approach I normally would use.

Thanks for the suggestion. I can see other applications for this test and will incorporate it into coaching scenarios with lower skill level players.

Regards,
Stoney

BTW - I am not an instructor either, just a team captain who wants his players to be all that they can be.

 

[Scott Lee]

Stoney...Her head is too high over the cue for WHOM? You? How high someone's head is over their cuestick is irrelevant to an accurate, repeatable stroke. You are off base on the eye dominance issue. All that's important (as pooltcher said) is where her cue lines up under her face (or close by) when she 'perceives' a straight line. Then, the ability to deliver the cue into that perceived straight line is what's most important.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanks for the suggestions. She is a little "hippy" after 4 kids so she does crowd her stance and this causes her to stand a little to high over the cue. These are two issues I can deal with as well as well as the other things you mentioned.

One thing though - and I have heard this from several sources - about not worrying about eye dominance. I know there are great shooters who are off-eye dominant but it seems to me that this issue would require a lot of compensation in aiming, alignment and to some degree stroke. If this is the case compensating for this would complicate the process of learning the basics of the game. Not arguing here, just questioning where my thinking is off track.

Again, thanks for the suggestions.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[Stoney]

"Stoney...Her head is too high over the cue for WHOM? You?"

I can not recall anything of an instructional nature - books, videos or in person - that advocates not getting down over the cue in alignment with the shot. Admitedly there are times when this is not possible or desirable but as a general rule cue under the right eye (for a right handed shooter) and chin just above the cue is considered proper form. So, I guess, from what I have learned, she is too high over the cue for me.

"How high someone's head is over their cuestick is irrelevant to an accurate, repeatable stroke."

Any stroke can be grooved to achieve predictable and repeatable results - I refer back to my response above for taking the stance she is too high over the cue.

"You are off base on the eye dominance issue. All that's important (as pooltcher said) is where her cue lines up under her face (or close by) when she 'perceives' a straight line. Then, the ability to deliver the cue into that perceived straight line is what's most important."

Where am I off base on the eye dominance issue? Except to report an accurate observation I truly don't know enough about it to have a position except to know it is a hinderance in one way or another to her game.

From what you and pooltcher have said I am beginning to see where stance and body positioning is a key to correcting her problem - I just don't want to implement and emphasize a correction that is going to cause her a different problem down the road.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[randyg]

STONEY: It dosen't make any difference which eye is dominant. She shoots with both eyes......SPF=randyg

 

[irock]

Good info Dead Crab.

 

[pooltchr]

One thing though - and I have heard this from several sources - about not worrying about eye dominance. I know there are great shooters who are off-eye dominant but it seems to me that this issue would require a lot of compensation in aiming, alignment and to some degree stroke. Stoney

There is no compensation required for aiming or stroke based on eye dominance. It doesn't matter. What does matter is how the shooter perceives the straight line extending out from the cue to the target. If their head is properly aligned to allow the shooter to see the straight line, they can be third eye dominant and it won't matter. As Randy said, we shoot with both eyes. Wherever our head is positioned to see exactly where we are point the cue is where we need to be.

Steve

 

[Scott Lee]

Stoney...You have not been to pool school, nor seen our instructional videos (Play Better Pool/Randy Goettlicher & Scott Lee). In both, we advocate that the correct stance is what works for the individual. There is no correct stance that works for everyone. All she needs to be is balanced, comfortable, and have free movement of the cue. You can 'align' to the shot regardless of how high or low you bend over. Therefore, how high her head is over the cue, is up to her. I play with my head a good foot over the cue quite comfortably. Others like the cue closer to the chin. We're all different. It certainly doesn't matter in terms of having the skill to execute shotmaking and position play.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

"Stoney...Her head is too high over the cue for WHOM? You?"

I can not recall anything of an instructional nature - books, videos or in person - that advocates not getting down over the cue in alignment with the shot. Admitedly there are times when this is not possible or desirable but as a general rule cue under the right eye (for a right handed shooter) and chin just above the cue is considered proper form. So, I guess, from what I have learned, she is too high over the cue for me.

From what you and pooltcher have said I am beginning to see where stance and body positioning is a key to correcting her problem - I just don't want to implement and emphasize a correction that is going to cause her a different problem down the road.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[Stoney]

I think the light has finally come on for me on this issue. My description of the problem (in my mind) didn't quite mesh with your collective responses and so I kept running in circles. In the end, her basic approach to the table and the shot are her problem and that I can deal with.

Thanks for your patience and thanks to all who responded here and in PM's.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[Scott Lee]

Stoney...To help her the most, look to these things, in particular:

1) Let her stand how she wants, as long as she is balanced, comfortable, and has free movement of the cue. Yes, do see that her body & cue align to the target. Show her when it's okay to stretch, and when it's not...and how to use a bridge.

2) Let her use whatever 'rhythym' she wants, in her pre-shot routine (aka warmup cycle)...as long as there is a final stop, or pause, at the CB, prior to the final backswing. If she pauses at the back, that's fine...but it doesn't replace the stop at the CB, after warmups. Whatever the routine is, it should be exactly the same for all shots.

3) Quit emphasizing follow-through, and focus on her stroke finish. As long as the tip of her cue contacts the CB accurately (pendulum stroke, and 90 degree grip), her tip will finish in the same place every time...because the stroke (range of motion) has a physical beginning and end. The stroke stops when your grip hand hits your chest...not some arbitrary place that your bicep flex creates. Follow through/finish can be tiny (1/2" or less), or great (9"), but it will never be 14+" without dropping the elbow (which is unnecessary). The finish position for the tip will, however, be the same on all shots (for that person)...even the break (i.e.: no more followthrough/finish on the break than on any other shot).

4) Teach her some kind of consisent eye pattern movement. Teach her to look at the CB anytime she does warmup strokes, and make sure she's looking at the OB before she pulls the trigger. Teach her to focus intently (for at least 2-3 seconds) on where she's aiming her tip, and then where she's aiming to contact the OB (both of these are done prior to the last warmups, and with the cue stopped very close to the CB).

5) Teach her to think about what she's going to to (Cover your A.S.S. = Angle, Speed, & Spin), standing up, not after she's bent over the shot. Think before shooting...Shoot without thinking!

6) Teach her some kind of speed control drill (MD#5), where she can ingrain her stroke process, while developing the feel for many different speeds...all using a full-range stroke, and the same tip position. In essence, this means learning to use only the cuestick and timing to create stroke speed...whether it's a lag or a break, and anything in between. This requires a very light grip, but can be developed into a deadly accurate stroke.

Hope this helps...:thumbup: Good luck with your student!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[Stoney]

Stoney...To help her the most, look to these things, in particular:

1) Let her stand how she wants, as long as she is balanced, comfortable, and has free movement of the cue. Yes, do see that her body & cue align to the target. Show her when it's okay to stretch, and when it's not...and how to use a bridge.

2) Let her use whatever 'rhythym' she wants, in her pre-shot routine (aka warmup cycle)...as long as there is a final stop, or pause, at the CB, prior to the final backswing. If she pauses at the back, that's fine...but it doesn't replace the stop at the CB, after warmups. Whatever the routine is, it should be exactly the same for all shots.

3) Quit emphasizing follow-through, and focus on her stroke finish. As long as the tip of her cue contacts the CB accurately (pendulum stroke, and 90 degree grip), her tip will finish in the same place every time...because the stroke (range of motion) has a physical beginning and end. The stroke stops when your grip hand hits your chest...not some arbitrary place that your bicep flex creates. Follow through/finish can be tiny (1/2" or less), or great (9"), but it will never be 14+" without dropping the elbow (which is unnecessary). The finish position for the tip will, however, be the same on all shots (for that person)...even the break (i.e.: no more followthrough/finish on the break than on any other shot).

4) Teach her some kind of consisent eye pattern movement. Teach her to look at the CB anytime she does warmup strokes, and make sure she's looking at the OB before she pulls the trigger. Teach her to focus intently (for at least 2-3 seconds) on where she's aiming her tip, and then where she's aiming to contact the OB (both of these are done prior to the last warmups, and with the cue stopped very close to the CB).

5) Teach her to think about what she's going to to (Cover your A.S.S. = Angle, Speed, & Spin), standing up, not after she's bent over the shot. Think before shooting...Shoot without thinking!

6) Teach her some kind of speed control drill (MD#5), where she can ingrain her stroke process, while developing the feel for many different speeds...all using a full-range stroke, and the same tip position. In essence, this means learning to use only the cuestick and timing to create stroke speed...whether it's a lag or a break, and anything in between. This requires a very light grip, but can be developed into a deadly accurate stroke.

Hope this helps...:thumbup: Good luck with your student!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanks, Scott!!!!!

This thread has brought me to the conclusion that I need to seek out some level (I assume there are multiple levels) of instructor certification. Not necessarily to give lessons per se but for my own improvement and to be able to assist team mates. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to go about this?

Again, thanks for all your help.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[Scott Lee]

Stoney...There are 4 levels of certification...recognized, certified, advanced, & master. Your first start would be attending pool school, either in Dallas, or one of our "road show" schools, which we do all over the country (for example, we had one in S. CA last weekend, FL this weekend, and one in NJ next weekend). Pool school is a great way to get a handle understanding what is natural about pool (physically and mentally), and on creating your own personal process, using your personal shooting template, to ingrain it over time. Let us know where you, and we can probably steer you to a location.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thanks, Scott!!!!!

This thread has brought me to the conclusion that I need to seek out some level (I assume there are multiple levels) of instructor certification. Not necessarily to give lessons per se but for my own improvement and to be able to assist team mates. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to go about this?

Again, thanks for all your help.

Regards,
Stoney

 

[Roger Long]

STONEY: It dosen't make any difference which eye is dominant. She shoots with both eyes......SPF=randyg

Amen. - Roger