Could a US based 9 ball tour work again? or is it too late?

[stewie]

The EuroTour exists. Why not a AmericasTour...?

It could totally work if not for the those damn pool players

Bob just answered that one already earlier:

In theory, it should be the BCA that is organizing a US tour. The BCA has decided it is not in the tournament or tour business. The BCA used to sanction qualifiers for the US Open but that ended about 30 or 40 years ago. The BCA used to run a pro tournament at the Trade Show.

So... Now we have independent local tours that seem to depend on a single, competent, interested person (think Zuglan) or maybe a small group of people. There is a calendar on the AZB home page you can use to search for their events. We also had the Predator series of 10-ball events in the US that was like a tour, but that seems to have stopped.

The Eurotour is organized by the EPBF, which there is no real equivalent here in the US.

 

[skogstokig]

between the turning stones, DCC 9b, intl open, us open, and WNT satellite events such as oscar's and wolf den's, there are probably about as many 9-ball "tour stops" in the US as on the eurotour. how many events did the PBT / camel tour have?

 

[stewie]

between the turning stones, DCC 9b, intl open, us open, and WNT satellite events such as oscar's and wolf den's, there are probably about as many 9-ball "tour stops" in the US as on the eurotour. how many events did the PBT / camel tour have?

I think there are even a few more WNT ranking events, like RAXX, the one in PA,....

 

[SBC]

Now I've heard it all. LMAO. You are out of touch with how bad their (nearly nonexistent) "tour" has been run for YEARS. The last couple of years the only reason it has survived and perked back up is because of Predator. Looks like this year things may have finally take a step forward, but take a breath.

90% of these lady pros are barely 600 speed....
There are a handful of decent players....otherwise it is a fantasy.

 

[George the Greek]

Handicap both the rating and the entry, higher rated players pay a higher fee. That's been done in other tours and seems to help field size.

The Predator tour here in Nova Scotia (Canada) is getting decent turnouts and we'll supported by the Doolys franchise. I believe they're committed for another four years here and this year a junior program was started to help youngsters learn to play and help grow the game. I'm hoping to get healthier and compete starting next season.

 

[briankenobi]

90% of these lady pros are barely 600 speed....
There are a handful of decent players....otherwise it is a fantasy.

If you look at their rankings, more than 10% of the players are above the 600 fargo level. The mention of the WPBA in this context is how the tour is run. There is an event every month in various parts of the country with sponsors for each event and a stream to watch. Every player that plays on the tour has to qualify to play on it. There is a board for the tour and everything is organized. It isn't random events that everyone play in such as DCC, Turning Stone, and all the other events people play in. To me what sets them apart is their events are not open. As much as people want to think DCC is a "pro tournament," it is not. It is an open tournament that a lot of pros play in. Because I like golf, I can't just pay an entry fee and then play in a PGA event. You have to qualify for that. So in regards to how the WPBA is organized and run, it is the only pro tour in the US.

I think something similar could be done for the guys if there were people that wanted to organize the tour.

 

[smiling_Hans]

We have that in California.

Traveling west coast tour.

 

[skogstokig]

I think there are even a few more WNT ranking events, like RAXX, the one in PA,....

and there will likely pop up more. how many stops did the old tour have?

 

[Chili Palmer]

Lucasi has the West Coast tour. They were just here in Boise last weekend but with only $4K added you're not going to get the pro's. The pro's are going to go where the money is at.

 

[smiling_Hans]

Lucasi has the West Coast tour. They were just here in Boise last weekend but with only $4K added you're not going to get the pro's. The pro's are going to go where the money is at.

I'm getting back to playing pool because I may do this tour next year.

I think I'm just going to enjoy pool instead. I would be dead money. May just do the California stops.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I'm getting back to playing pool because I may do this tour next year.

I think I'm just going to enjoy pool instead. I would be dead money. May just do the California stops.

I quit playing competitively 3 or 4 years ago, when this came to Boise someone said I should've played in it but given I've only played 3 tournaments in those last few years I chose not to. I do wish I would've played though, I used to beat up on one of the guys who took 17 or 18, and I have at least beaten a couple of the guys who finished in the money. Given my lack of play though, I didn't feel like being dead money and donating the $130.

 

[Justaneng]

Those are the ones in "APA-7ft-prison". They are locked in in their leagues 3-5 times/week and most of them don't dare to play weekly handicapped tournaments on 9ft tables.

Here in NYC you can see that first hand. RAXX and Cuebar are two different stories. They are pretty close to each other. RAXX is half 9ft, half 7ft. Cuebar is 9ft only. One has constant good turnout on Thursdays for a handicapped weekly and the other has many APA leagues, but Monday night turnout was sometimes good, sometimes not so good. Those league players would never try Mondays on a big table. Both have nice turnouts for tournaments on weekends, but still not those "upgrade from casual to amateur" players you are talking about.

I'm not sure what tables they play on changes how much money they would spend though. If a US tour gets off the ground, it needs sponsors, and sponsors need to be getting their return. All that is a question of (a) how many customers do we have now? (b) how many potential customers are up for grabs?

Optomistically, there's a ton of people in category (b) in the US, simply because of disposable income in the middle and upper middle classes. Even with inflation, I can buy more shit than my European counterparts who have my exact same job desciption and experience (primarily because they're being taxed to oblivion). Meanwhile it takes my Malaysian counterparts 45 minutes of work to "earn" enough money to pay for a cup of Starbucks.

So while the European/Asian base right now may be better than the US base skill wise, there are more APA-5's strolling around the US that can dump $1,000 on pool equipment and not really think about it - and that's what matters for sponsorship. A packed house watching a pro-tournament in Vietnam might not be able to outspend a handful of league players in the US who get a bit more invested in the game than where they are at currently.

1) So who in the US has one playing cue that uses a house cue as a breaker .... and is THIS close to buying a dedicated break cue?
2) Who is very, very close to buying a jump cue that doesn't have one?
3) Who is watching old matches on YouTube that is not that far off of being willing to buy a live stream?

All of these are questions for sponsors to consider.

 

[jason]

Global pool is better off with a global tour, not a tour centered on a single country that has only three of the world's top 50 players, one of whom plays as an American only because of the Ukraine war. The US doesn't deserve such a tour and it wouldn't be good for the game. (Three of the top 50 might actually be an understatement. You could argue it's only three out of the top 100.)

As others noted, perhaps the US could end up with a thriving minor league tour that feeds into the MNT, alongside other regional tours and associations in Europe and Asia.

I generally agree with the statement above. I don't believe the US has been the leader in pool for a long time, and our country doesn't support it very well. The pool community is small, and until recently, there wasn't much money involved. We currently have a good setup, so we shouldn't rock the boat, as they say. Introducing a US tour would detract from other tournaments, and players will naturally go where the money is, if they can afford to. Moreover, the US is struggling in the global arena. Our way of life has already changed and is poised to change even more. The dollar may lose its global buying power, and global conflict seems imminent, with the economy potentially crashing like never before. It's a bad time to start a tour.

me <----part dooms day prepper, part pool player

 

[SBC]

If you look at their rankings, more than 10% of the players are above the 600 fargo level. The mention of the WPBA in this context is how the tour is run. There is an event every month in various parts of the country with sponsors for each event and a stream to watch. Every player that plays on the tour has to qualify to play on it. There is a board for the tour and everything is organized. It isn't random events that everyone play in such as DCC, Turning Stone, and all the other events people play in. To me what sets them apart is their events are not open. As much as people want to think DCC is a "pro tournament," it is not. It is an open tournament that a lot of pros play in. Because I like golf, I can't just pay an entry fee and then play in a PGA event. You have to qualify for that. So in regards to how the WPBA is organized and run, it is the only pro tour in the US.

I think something similar could be done for the guys if there were people that wanted to organize the tour.

The WPBA is a shadow of what it was even 10 years ago.

If all we have for tours is cue and chalk sponsors....US pool goes nowhere.

What is needed is a house club system for real pool like in europe. What we have is 300k people playing APA....which only enriches the APA and casinos that support it.

 

[white1]

Personally, I think it's too late. Times continue to change. Professional pool seems to happening in other places besides the U.S. (on the whole).

The only real pool "hotspots" (and I use that term very loosely) left are in some parts of California and the NE. Those will eventually fade.
In about 20 years from now (after practically all the old time players have left us), you will be a novelty (in the U.S.) if you can play pro-level pool.

I really thought the IPT and/or Bonus Ball were going to be the turning points and the harbingers of things to come. Each approached the game from slightly different perspectives. They were honest efforts. Wouldn't you know it. Both failed. They were the best attempts we had at bringing back pro pool to the U.S.

The sad historical footnote about this game is that the money never came. We tried. Experimental tours and novel games were created and developed, but they eventually faded for their respective reasons.

I will continue to play this game. I enjoy it too much. There is only one last hope left: the Olympics. Should pool ever be accepted into the Olympic Games, I will do my very best to be part of that. Good night.

I do understand, yet disagree respectfully. Pool is doing well in the southeast with lots of tournaments, action and activities

 

[jokrswylde]

Keep it Global you will have better chance at global appeal. Don't narrow the market out. Look at American Football It's only popular in the USA

NFL Europe had a pretty good run. The NFL still sells out multiple games in Europe each season, as well as in Mexico City.

I would be interested to see how much NFL gear (jerseys and such) is sold worldwide

I'm not sure what tables they play on changes how much money they would spend though. If a US tour gets off the ground, it needs sponsors, and sponsors need to be getting their return. All that is a question of (a) how many customers do we have now? (b) how many potential customers are up for grabs?

Optomistically, there's a ton of people in category (b) in the US, simply because of disposable income in the middle and upper middle classes. Even with inflation, I can buy more shit than my European counterparts who have my exact same job desciption and experience (primarily because they're being taxed to oblivion). Meanwhile it takes my Malaysian counterparts 45 minutes of work to "earn" enough money to pay for a cup of Starbucks.

So while the European/Asian base right now may be better than the US base skill wise, there are more APA-5's strolling around the US that can dump $1,000 on pool equipment and not really think about it - and that's what matters for sponsorship. A packed house watching a pro-tournament in Vietnam might not be able to outspend a handful of league players in the US who get a bit more invested in the game than where they are at currently.

1) So who in the US has one playing cue that uses a house cue as a breaker .... and is THIS close to buying a dedicated break cue?
2) Who is very, very close to buying a jump cue that doesn't have one?
3) Who is watching old matches on YouTube that is not that far off of being willing to buy a live stream?

All of these are questions for sponsors to consider.

Good post. I would be amazed if any other country had the sheer volume of people who have a cf shaft, couple pieces of $20 chalk, jb case, jump cue, break cue, multiple gloves, tip tools, numerous Hustlin' shirts, and on and on...

We might not have as many 800 FR players as Europe, but by- gawd I bet our well equipped 500FR players do as much to keep the pool industry afloat as anybody in the world.