Could a US based 9 ball tour work again? or is it too late?

[skogstokig]

No, players pissed on them. They're done.

many american players did. non-american pros had a fairly high participation. shane and sky played the first one iirc and said they didn't like the format and the tables. corey played one but got into an argument about foreign players. tyler is probably the only one who had high participation but he's very much a predator player. others only came to play the las vegas open because of it being in conjunction with the world 10b.

i believe predator improved on the tables but the format was still perceived as gaffy by the pros. i'm not sure you can blame the players. the business model depended a lot on selling predator tables and equipment, like JOY had done in heyball. but they had bigger competition and smaller exposure. difficult task

 

[garczar]

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any Pro Billiard Series events in the US for the rest of the year. Are there any?

i haven't looked at sched lately. kinda strange if they did stop doing them. i'm msg'ing csi to see what's up. i guess csi/pred's ties to the wpa would tend to negate a lot of pros playing it. forgot all about wpa's ties to that outfit. I guess we need the 'AZBilliards 9b Tour' with a motto of "Keepin' the 5ball Orange".

 

[garczar]

Just looked a ProSeries FB page and their only event in '24 is the world 8b in new zealand. i guess their wpa ties are a big part of their problem, all the big boys signed with MR.

 

[Zerksies]

Keep it Global you will have better chance at global appeal. Don't narrow the market out. Look at American Football It's only popular in the USA

 

[garczar]

Keep it Global you will have better chance at global appeal. Don't narrow the market out. Look at American Football It's only popular in the USA

Really not the point here, the game already has global appeal. The US is big enough to have a US-based tour. Going global is MR's deal plus the costs involved running a worldwide tour skyrocket quick. Having a tour that had at least one event a month should not be that hard to do. There are more than enough big rooms that could host one. Not talking about getting the top-top players, more of a feeder pro series for US players working their way up. Big names could play but developing new pros should be the main goal. As i said before something like golf's KornFerryTour.

 

[mikemosconi]

I don't see any near term big pro turnout U.S. tours. I just feel very fortunate to have lived in the Northeast through the 90s and early 2000s where one could attend most of the JOSS EVENTS, ALL THE MOHEGAN SUN events, all the U.S. Open and World 14.1 events, not to mention the Predator and Tri State tournaments, including the pro portion of Tony's Predator tour in NYC. There was even a nine ball pro event held inside Grand Central Station, NYC - Vanderbilt Hall! Also some of the great rooms in NJ and NYC where pro calibers were always in abundance.
It is all over now , for the most part, only shadows remain here and there. However, it was a great ride to be a part of it in many different ways, getting to play the likes of Earl and Mika at Tony's Sunday NYC Predator Pro, being so up close to the play of the then world's best players- men and women at Mohegan Sun Challenge of Champions every year - what a great run- miss it, yes- remember it- always!

 

[Badpenguin]

The US men should just beg the WPBA to let them play alongside the women and let the women handle the business side. They are the only ones that can do it.

We have completely sold off all of men's american pool. Once the likes of Zuglan and Pet Fleming stop, there will be no more professional pool tours on 9' tables in the US.

 

[garczar]

I don't see any near term big pro turnout U.S. tours. I just feel very fortunate to have lived in the Northeast through the 90s and early 2000s where one could attend most of the JOSS EVENTS, ALL THE MOHEGAN SUN events, all the U.S. Open and World 14.1 events, not to mention the Predator and Tri State tournaments, including the pro portion of Tony's Predator tour in NYC. There was even a nine ball pro event held inside Grand Central Station, NYC - Vanderbilt Hall! Also some of the great rooms in NJ and NYC where pro calibers were always in abundance.
It is all over now , for the most part, only shadows remain here and there. However, it was a great ride to be a part of it in many different ways, getting to play the likes of Earl and Mika at Tony's Sunday NYC Predator Pro, being so up close to the play of the then world's best players- men and women at Mohegan Sun Challenge of Champions every year - what a great run- miss it, yes- remember it- always!

Mike's long-running JOSS NE Tour is really a perfect model for a nationwide tour. If someone could take that model and enlarge its scope would be ideal. not cheap/easy but doable.

 

[garczar]

The US men should just beg the WPBA to let them play alongside the women and let the women handle the business side. They are the only ones that can do it.

We have completely sold off all of men's american pool. Once the likes of Zuglan and Pet Fleming stop, there will be no more professional pool tours on 9' tables in the US.

There are other regional tours, Ca/Tx/Fl have 9ft tours, and probably always will be. Getting a nation-wide tour going will always be tough and unlikely imo. The gals do a great job i agree but getting them and the men on the same bill? Just a tad unlikely.

 

[BasementDweller]

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Predator could switch games, team up with Matchroom, and own the American pool scene. Get Matchroom on board and work out a 5 year deal. They could then run a series of events in the U.S. and award 10 or so WNT tour cards at the end of the season.

Maybe that wouldn't work economically for them, but it seems to make more sense than their 10 Ball series did.

 

[garczar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Predator could switch games, team up with Matchroom, and own the American pool scene. Get Matchroom on board and work out a 5 year deal. They could then run a series of events in the U.S. and award 10 or so WNT tour cards at the end of the season.

Maybe that wouldn't work economically for them, but it seems to make more sense than their 10 Ball series did.

I too think that all roads lead through MR hq. They would be smart to invest in a US developmental pro tour. It would make good business sense down the line if they could groom US talent that would go on to play the big WNT .

 

[SBC]

Handicap the tour so that advanced amateurs can place for better money....you will have 1000 guys playing.

Do game spots.
Top tier to 9
8s
7s
Even 6s

Make it like a poker event with lots of buyins. Run it like a Derby City Tournament with a redraw each time and a buy back.
$500 entry
$250 buyback

I ran tournaments at my room with 2 game handicaps for non pros 9 to 7. Hatch and Immonen were beaten by A players. You cannot appreciate how big a deal that was. Mika hand flipping nonstop and Hatch complaining about the cueball.

 

[garczar]

Handicap the tour so that advanced amateurs can place for better money....you will have 1000 guys playing.

Do game spots.
Top tier to 9
8s
7s
Even 6s

Make it like a poker event with lots of buyins. Run it like a Derby City Tournament with a redraw each time and a buy back.
$500 entry
$250 buyback

I ran tournaments at my room with 2 game handicaps for non pros 9 to 7. Hatch and Immonen were beaten by A players. You cannot appreciate how big a deal that was. Mika hand flipping nonstop and Hatch complaining about the cueball.

Handicap both the rating and the entry, higher rated players pay a higher fee. That's been done in other tours and seems to help field size.

 

[SBC]

Handicap both the rating and the entry, higher rated players pay a higher fee. That's been done in other tours and seems to help field size.

Good players are busted

If it gave good players a chance to place. The.money won't matter. All the US events are already full of bracket fillers who can't win.

 

[jax_joe]

The US men should just beg the WPBA to let them play alongside the women and let the women handle the business side. They are the only ones that can do it.

Now I've heard it all. LMAO. You are out of touch with how bad their (nearly nonexistent) "tour" has been run for YEARS. The last couple of years the only reason it has survived and perked back up is because of Predator. Looks like this year things may have finally take a step forward, but take a breath.

 

[AtLarge]

Thanks, I do not know how I missed that one.

Dennis was a great player with some Joss Tour roots, but I would suggest that (just like Strickland) his roots lie much more in PBT play, the national tour that lasted from the early 1980s to the late 1990s, and which was much stronger than the Joss Tour has ever been. Dennis played, and got his seasoning, on the PBT in the 1990s and the bulk of his Joss Tour success came after the PBT, also known as the Camel Tour in its last years, folded after (what I believe was) the 1999 season.

True. You also mentioned a couple others who played on the Joss Tour but for whom it was not their main training ground. So I felt it was appropriate to put forward Hatch's name. And there are probably at least a couple of dozen other well known pros who have played in Joss events (other than Turning Stone) from time to time.

 

[The_JV]

Now I've heard it all. LMAO. You are out of touch with how bad their (nearly nonexistent) "tour" has been run for YEARS. The last couple of years the only reason it has survived and perked back up is because of Predator. Looks like this year things may have finally take a step forward, but take a breath.

He's clearly out of touch. You don't need to beg, just identify appropriately for a few days

 

[The_JV]

The EuroTour exists. Why not a AmericasTour...?

It could totally work if not for the those damn pool players

 

[Justaneng]

I too think that all roads lead through MR hq. They would be smart to invest in a US developmental pro tour. It would make good business sense down the line if they could groom US talent that would go on to play the big WNT .

I would tend to agree about market potential (at least how someone wanting to grow pool would view it). The amateur and "could upgrade from casual to amateur if they cared 5% more about pool" crowd in the USA is sitting on way more disposable income than other countries.

 

[stewie]

I would tend to agree about market potential (at least how someone wanting to grow pool would view it). The amateur and "could upgrade from casual to amateur if they cared 5% more about pool" crowd in the USA is sitting on way more disposable income than other countries.

Those are the ones in "APA-7ft-prison". They are locked in in their leagues 3-5 times/week and most of them don't dare to play weekly handicapped tournaments on 9ft tables.

Here in NYC you can see that first hand. RAXX and Cuebar are two different stories. They are pretty close to each other. RAXX is half 9ft, half 7ft. Cuebar is 9ft only. One has constant good turnout on Thursdays for a handicapped weekly and the other has many APA leagues, but Monday night turnout was sometimes good, sometimes not so good. Those league players would never try Mondays on a big table. Both have nice turnouts for tournaments on weekends, but still not those "upgrade from casual to amateur" players you are talking about.