Could you be a pro player?
- Thread starter benturner
- Start date
Sorry, I guess I don't really understand your point. The question was to become a pro level player in 2 years. Some of us that stated we believe we could do that already have a lot of experience under our belts. No one ever said anything about becoming one of the best in the world in 2 years. Big difference there.
How are we not giving them credit? 10,000 hours is just a benchmark that researchers settled on as what seems to be about what it take in SERIOUS and DEDICATED deep practice to reach world class.
So anyone who plays at world class speed has pretty much put that time in, in the right way. Some more some less, some with great mentoring some without the great mentoring. Some with more seasoning, some with less seasoning.
People talk about this subject as if it's all absolutes. Oh well if you don't have the "talent" then no way will you ever get there. Oh if you start at 30 no way will you ever get there.......
And yet stories abound of people who didn't have obvious "talent" who ended up being great at things even they thought they wouldn't have been great at. People start whole new careers later in life and become world class.
I think anyone who says that a human can't do something that other humans have already done is selling human ability short.
Given the nature of the posts here, I believe many of you find http://thedanplan/ to be VERY interesting. When you get there I suggest hitting the link to "press."
But first you might want to put .com in there
I bet against that. If PRO SPEED is defined as how good the pros play right now then the majority of the population who meet all the physical and mental requirements would indeed reach pro speed in my opinion. But the thing is that if that happened then what's considered pro speed would also go WAY UP.
If anyone practices and plays for 12 hours a day they cannot help but get good.
Let's look at it empirically and assume that the person wants to improve and is mentally and physically fit.
By putting in 12 hours a day of practice and play they will be learning all the required skills. They will be practicing shots relentlessly and honing those skills, learning all the nuance?
Mizerak said he shot new shots 200 times to learn them. You can do the math and figure out how long it would take then for anyone to learn to master any aspect of the game.
It's not like this is something like engineering and physics where you have to retain specific knowledge to make things work.
It's just balls and a stick man, just balls and a stick. Put in the time and you get the reward.
But first you might want to put a .com in there after plan
I guess I should have first asked for a definition of a pro player. Take DCC for example, if you got a couple of hundred bucks for the entry fee, you can play any one of the 3 big tournaments if I'm not mistaken. You could be a decent A player and with a really lucky draw, end up going enough rounds to get a modest amount of cash. Does that then make you a professional player? I don't think so.
Neil, I don't doubt at your level, if you were 30 years younger and in a position where you could put in 8 hours or so per day of practice for 2 or 3 years, I suspect you could compete reasonably well professionally. From what I understand, you weren't far off if not at that level at one time anyway.
My point is that I don't believe just anybody who has reasonable health, decent eyes and could put in 10,000 hour of table time could play professionally at any reasonably high level. 8 hours per day, 7 days per week is 2,912 hours. So it would take around 3 1/2 years at that pace to get to 10,000 hours.
I've played against professionals in a number of different sports. I can't put it into words but they simply have something special about them that sets them apart aside from physical attributes. It's like being a natural leader of having charisma, you can teach that to a certain degree but you either have it or you don't. That's my point and no insult meant to anybody.
No insult taken. However character isn't a factor. There are pros who are great people and other ones who are major jerks. There are people in the world who were major jerks and who turned their character around to become well-liked leaders.
The reason you can't put it into words is that what you can't describe can't be found by researchers who have put millions of dollars and countless hours looking for. You want to say it's talent but in fact what it seems to be is desire.
Desire seems to the be the real key because research shows that those who possess a lot of desire and act on it are the ones who excel.
You're welcome to your opinion. The fact is, well less than 95% of the population has anywhere near the ambition and drive to do anything close to world class, so it is a moot point anyway.
Yes, "stories abound" about people making it. There's 6.8 billion people on the planet so statistically speaking, the blind squirrel is occasionally going to find an acorn. Your point seems to be is the Joe Sixpack off the street could achieve professional status if suddenly they decided to put 2500 hours of practice in for the next 4 years. Sorry, that's ridiculous.
I'll tell you what JB, you're always wanting to bet. So here you go. I'll bet you $10,000 you can't come to DCC or Tunica 4 years from now and finish in the top 10 in 9 ball, 10 ball or 1 pocket. You pick whichever one you're going to go after. According to you, you're already at a reasonably high skill level so it should be a piece of cake.
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. No question, the lack of desire disqualifies most people from the get go. However, it's desire plus at least some reasonable level of natural talent plus competitive spirit plus the ability to perform under pressure plus intangibles.
I may desire to be President of the United States, doesn't mean that will happen. I may desire to dunk a basketball, that's surely isn't going to happen. To say that desire is the over riding factor to being successful in sports is more than ridiculous.
Tell you what Nobcity, even if I were able to reach the speed necessary to get to the top ten in those events just being that speed of player doesn't guarantee I will finish that high. You can just look at the results and see that MOST professional class players don't finish in the top ten at DCC. Getting there is a result of great play, the draw, and a lot of good rolls.
Why are you making it personal? We simply disagree. Science and research happens to be on my side but it's ok if we disagree about it.
See, now there is where your thinking goes a little bit haywire. Like John said, it takes a ton of desire. What desire do you think John would have to give up his current "job" for four years to win a measly $10,000 bet? Why give up what he has now to win $2500 a year? Now, add a couple of zeroes to that number, make it an open offer that everyone knows will be paid off, and you will see players coming out of the woodwork collecting on it.
Neil, once again, my debate is more with John who has repeatedly said just about anybody with the desire who could put in 10,000 hours at the table could achieve world class level. I believe that is a fair synopsis of what he's been saying. I'm saying that is absolutely ridiculous.
As a counter to your point, putting up $100,000 would disqualify the vast majority of those who would care to try. As John stated, it was a sucker bet. I proposed it to him as many of the wagers he proposes to people are sucker bets as well. LOL Look at SVB at the most recent DCC, I don't believe he made it to the top 10 in any of the 3 events after winning two of them the year before.
Well, I happen to totally agree with John on this topic. What you are leaving out of the mix is proper training. Most will never get there because they don't even know how to play right to start with.Then, they consider league night their practice. We aren't talking about that type of person. We are talking about someone that really wants it bad enough to do what it takes. Willing to practice when they don't want to anymore. Willing to do whatever it takes to reach that goal. There is no doubt in my mind that any able-bodied person with that kind of desire and proper training can achieve a pro level of play.
By pro level of play I mean able to compete in pro tournaments and have a decent chance at cashing in them. I have wanted to do this myself, but I no longer am physically able to do it. It makes me sick to have to admit that. The desire is there, but not the physical part, and the physical part will only get worse for me. I'll be happy if I can still play at all in two more years.
But, with what I now know about the game, and what I know I can do for short periods of time now, there is no doubt in my mind that anyone can do it that really desires it. It's all about proper training and willingness. The rest comes from that.The knowledge is now there. What is lacking is the desire by many. Those that now do play at the pro level have their egos so big that many of them are not willing to learn new things, and most don't have the real desire to even practice much let alone properly. The few that do, like Shane and Darren are starting to show how much it pays off.
Neil, we'll just have to agree to disagree. No reasonable way to test the theory anyway. I hear you about the physical limitations. I get in 2 to 4 hours of practice 6 out of 7 days per week. My body couldn't take much more than that. Had to see the chiropractor last week. LOL It sucks to get old but I guess it still beats the alternative.
I think just "playing" 6-8 hours a day for 2 years will get you nowhere close to pro speed. However, training and competing along with having proper instruction and mentoring,
might get to you an A level or above. And even if you get that far, in addition to a strong phsyical game, you need to pay your dues and build a strong mental game as well, and 2 years is just not enough to do all of that.
might get to you an A level or above. And even if you get that far, in addition to a strong phsyical game, you need to pay your dues and build a strong mental game as well, and 2 years is just not enough to do all of that.
Did you miss the part where I said at least three times that as long as there is no physical handicap........
You are not talking about the same amount of desire that I am. Fleeting desire or dreamy wishing is not what I am talking about.
Relentless desire and pursuit of one's goals is what I am talking about. Research shows that this is what seems to be the key to achieving world class skill.
Sorry that you disagree with researchers and authors who have written scientific research papers and books about this subject. I am merely repeating their conclusions so if you find them ridiculous then that's your call.
Part of my opinion comes from being someone who stood on a 1ft platform staring down at a pool 18ft across and having to jump off and do two somersaults and land safely 4x a day. When learning I had landed once on my back and could have been seriously injured. I have no innate "talent" as a high diver, in fact I am kind of afraid of heights.
But I WANTED to do it. Why? Well, you see there was this girl and she only had one day off each week and that day wasn't my day and the only way to get that day was to trade with a high diver and the only way to trade was if I became a high diver. So I learned how to do it overcoming my fear, getting up on the ladder, splattering, getting up again and simply practicing.
I wasn't born to be a high diver. I just did it.