Who is?
CSI dumps Diamond for Predator tables
- Thread starter skip100
- Start date
My vote would be Steve Leistikow. He's got a machinist background, been at it a long time, doesn't cut corners, does great rail work (one of the few that can properly recalibrate a subrail) and every table I've played on that he's touched plays great. I believe he's booked 6 weeks out.
And the slates not super glued to lock them together so they won't separate later on. With bondo in the seam as a Filler, the slightest slate movement will cause the slate seam to pop up the bondo with the edges of the slate still adhered to the bondo, THAT is why you lock the slates together with super glue!
That was true when Predator brought out the 9 foot tables. As of Tuscon stop in January 22, all the ones I've seen have been 1 piece slate, transported on dollies. Except for attaching/detaching legs, it pretty much comes assembled.
As for levelling, in Las Vegas, I saw many new faces associated with table assembly. The Carom side team, almost all the table mechanics used machinist levels. The Predator Carom tables had to be assembled and completely dissassembled.
BCAPL, CSI, did not post a poll to ask if players wanted Predator?
Do not like do not play. They will get message.
Do not like do not play. They will get message.
That's kind of what I was thinking. I dont think its possible for Sam/Predator to produce 300 tables for the BCA Nationals in Vegas at the end this coming February. I'd be very surprised if they do. ESPECIALLY with all the supply chain problems we are all experiencing.
I really doubt they would sign a deal unless they could deliver. We shall see! Predator is not the typical company in our industry: THEY HAVE LOTS OF $$$$, that makes a huge difference in business. They been watching and planning, that is very clear to me.
I am excited for them to make some ripples in the pond. Seeing Brunswick remove their 7' GC Coin op off their website also could be a signal that they are redesigning it!!! I do know they were only producing the top of the table and the base was produced by Global. I hope they get back in the game as well. Exciting times for pool in the USA! HAPPY 4th of July, time for some WORK after a leisurely weekend. I hope you got the day off @buckshotshoey !!!
TFT
Those studs have larger part that comes cover them. Pic is missing those. You can also adjust them from below after slates are on.
And for years they played on Valley tables. Please don't think your average league player really knows the difference (or cares). What would you think the average player would prefer? Free Valley tables vs Diamond tables at a Quarter a game? People got to stop making drama. Predator saw an opportunity to leverage their brand awareness. No different than what they did with Balls/Cloth/Gloves/Tips or Cases. They found a willing and capable partner in SAM Billiards. Lets see how this goes.BCAPL, CSI, did not post a poll to ask if players wanted Predator?
Do not like do not play. They will get message.
I have to laugh at your optimistic outlook, but let me give you something to think about. Unless Predator creates a finance program and finances their coin ops for the bar owners to afford them, OR they win over all the vending companies in this country to buy them and lease those tables to the bars...all they're ever going to sell is stragglers to a few bars here and there, not enough to keep their business model afloat! I've been in this business for 40 years, and I mean the commercial business! I've seen so many manufacturers come and go with their coin operated pool tables its a joke! NO ONE could take on the Valley/Dynamo corporation until Diamond came along, and Diamond has paid with blood in doing so, but they're standing on their own ground now, and Valley is not longer a threat to them. So, I think I'll just sit back and wait for what I know is coming, so I can tell everyone...."I told you so"!!!
Here's something to think about, Brunswick has made 5 attempts now, going back years, to break into the commercial coin op market. Even to the extent of buying the Valley company for like $34.5M with the game plan of selling direct to the end buyers, offering no finance program. They later sold Valley for like $2M.
So to Predator
bring it on baby, the sooner this train gets headed down the tracks, the sooner I get to watch the train derailment happen!!!
So to Predator
bring it on baby, the sooner this train gets headed down the tracks, the sooner I get to watch the train derailment happen!!!
Want another example of the coin op market! What ever happened to the new Brunswick Gold Crown coin op bar table, you know, the one Mark Gregory called the Diamond killer! That lasted about as long as Michael Spinks did against Mike Tyson....91 seconds
I like your style! There is room for pool to GROW! Haters will always be out there tryin to create drama and wishing bad on others...
Our industry needs new companies to INVEST in pool growing into a real sport.
TFT
At the end of the day the winner here will be the players.
If all 4 companies compete and up the standards of their equipment then the end result is better equipment available for the players.
I don't expect valley to redesign their table but maybe they finally do if Brunswick, predator and diamond start stealing sales in the bar table market.
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If all 4 companies compete and up the standards of their equipment then the end result is better equipment available for the players.
I don't expect valley to redesign their table but maybe they finally do if Brunswick, predator and diamond start stealing sales in the bar table market.
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Brunswick sold out every time they produced the new GC Coin op! IMO they are up to something and abandoning a project that sold out does not make a lot of sense.
It would be super smart of Valley to redesign, but, they sell a lot of tables already??
The future does look brighter for THE PLAYERS!!!
TFT
The only one gaining on Valley is Diamond, Brunswick is now Escalade, and Predator is attempting to import tables from Spain, and neither know what they're doing, but keeps your hopes up.
Why? You are assuming they are going after Coin-Op sales. Think of it this way. Currently they have $0 table sales and are spending say 3M on year on advertising/tournament promotions. Lets say they net out 1K in profits from each table and and additional $500 in brand awareness & accessory sales. It's all incremental to their business.
It's like a Gas station that sells cigarettes and lottery tickets. By themselves you couldn't make a business out of it but as a tack on it makes sense AND SELLS MORE GAS. This is kind of the same thing but different. Amazon doesn't mimic Walmart. Tesla doesn't mimic GM. Predator doesn't have to follow Diamond. This is not a debate about whether Diamond tables are better than SAM/Pred.
I have played on KimSteel tables and I find them to play short and are a little gaffy (and loud). Actually a lot like a Rasson. I think the Steel frame acts like a megaphone. Give me a well setup GC1/2 and I'm happy. The Diamonds are great and what I currently play on but they are not perfect. A product can always be made better but will the market bare the cost.
phreaticus
Well-known member
Haven’t seen anyone else comment on the following aspect.
In that CSI/Predator interview video, Karim mentioned that they haven’t even considered a return/coin-op version yet, he basically brushed it off and said they’ll work on that later. I was a bit taken back by that… seems awfully hard to just “bolt on” a high quality return/coin-op system. Both Valley/Dynamo & Diamonds barboxes are designed entirely around their internal return systems…
The Predator 7’ project seems like quite a head scratcher to me, but certainly wish them well, and hopefully their small table “R&D” investment with SAM produces some real sustainable fruit. When viewed as marketing budget $$ to support their long term CSI collaboration for the USA league scene & general long term Predator brand promotion - it makes more sense.
Too bad the new Brunswick barbox project is DOA…
Here In NorCal and from what I’ve seen of west coast bar scene, it seems hard enough to convince a typical bar/poolhall owner to even invest in Diamonds over Valley’s, even with Diamond’s well known financing model. Hard to imagine a new entrant of any kind making a dent in that market, especially with zero distribution/support network… How big is the US barbox market anyway?
In that CSI/Predator interview video, Karim mentioned that they haven’t even considered a return/coin-op version yet, he basically brushed it off and said they’ll work on that later. I was a bit taken back by that… seems awfully hard to just “bolt on” a high quality return/coin-op system. Both Valley/Dynamo & Diamonds barboxes are designed entirely around their internal return systems…
The Predator 7’ project seems like quite a head scratcher to me, but certainly wish them well, and hopefully their small table “R&D” investment with SAM produces some real sustainable fruit. When viewed as marketing budget $$ to support their long term CSI collaboration for the USA league scene & general long term Predator brand promotion - it makes more sense.
Too bad the new Brunswick barbox project is DOA…
Here In NorCal and from what I’ve seen of west coast bar scene, it seems hard enough to convince a typical bar/poolhall owner to even invest in Diamonds over Valley’s, even with Diamond’s well known financing model. Hard to imagine a new entrant of any kind making a dent in that market, especially with zero distribution/support network… How big is the US barbox market anyway?
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Agreed. They may have them in storage right now. Without communication from CSI or Predator, there's no way to know for sure.
I would LOVE to see Brunswick competitively get back into the game. I dont see it as good news that the 7 foot was removed from the website. But, I do tend to be a little pessimistic.