CTE Manual Pivot Questions

[stan shuffett]

Stan, lets say I'm looking at a shot and I don't know which visual and/or pivot to use. We're playing 9 ball, I'm on the 9, hill-hill, $2,500 won if I hit the shot. What do you look at and/or think about to determine the right visual and/or pivot to utilize?

Well, first off, in that scenario the shooter would likely be very experienced.

If I find myself in a situation and I am unsure of the visuals and pivot direction it would only be for a moment.

I would look at an alignment choice and sweep to CCB and look at the shot line. If I liked it, I would stand up and then go into the commit mode, line up sweep and shoot.

In other words, I can a trial and error a dry run shot that is just an up and down movement just as any other player might do with fractions, GB or CP when they are unsure of a shot line.

Bottom line, once a player becomes proficient with CTE PRO ONE, the misreads for visuals and pivots are few in number. I remember a ton of misreads for the fraction. system when I played that way. Landon had them as well and that was precisely why I trained him in CTE.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Good info. For as long as I've been doing this, I wish I had it down that good. What I screw up on the most is making the wrong pivot on certain shots. For the most part I do very well with it, but when I pivot wrong, I'm off alot.
I don't know if it's that I primarilly play on a 7 foot bar box so there's more different pivots. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

Identify those areas of the table where you misread your pivot and practice that section of the table with different shots. That helps me a lot. You know, there's a zillion shots and we are not going to shoot them all. But you you can work the various sections of any quite easily.

Stan Shuffett

 

[AtLarge]

Hey Scott,

Agreed the pivot progression is always linear, I don't think there was ever a question about that. It is the transitions between alignments that can differ. To be honest, there is really one major one that comes to mind which is *very* evident on the 9-26 shot. Set that up and you will see that instinctively you may want to use an inside pivot on this, but it is actually outside that works. I'm sure Stan put this shot ont the DVD on purpose for this reason. It is on the very edge of CTEL/C with a left pivot.

cheers!
Monte

The 9-26 shot is an inside (left) pivot with visuals CTEL/A. Perhaps you are talking about some other shot.

 

[mohrt]

The 9-26 shot is an inside (left) pivot with visuals CTEL/A. Perhaps you are talking about some other shot.

oops, it was the other one, 29-22. I'll fix my post. Thanks.

[edit] and I had an earlier post in this thread wrong as well! fixed now, it is 29-22 I am referring to, not 9-26.

 

[scottjen26]

Agreed, I just looked at the shot diagrams and that 29-22 shot (OB on the foot spot, cue ball 1 diamond out from the side pocket) is at a funny angle. I would shoot it correctly every time now, but I'm certain when learning and even later my first instinct would have been to use an inside pivot. I'm wondering if because the OB is in that position, directly opposite the jaws of the corner pocket, that the angles extend a bit from the normal transition point, maybe a type of optical illusion or something with the geometry of the shot and table.

Experience helps a lot with these, as with other aiming/alignment approaches. Since I'm using a bit of a hybrid approach, right now I would shoot that ball correctly because I tend to look at the CTEL fairly strongly while standing back from the shot and the overlap that creates, from there I can quickly judge whether I need to go thicker or thinner or whether thinner won't quite make it and I need to move to B. That quick, 1 second appraisal has helped a lot with those in between shots, as opposed to before where I would pick one, get down, and sometimes convince myself that it looked right when it was really wrong, or worse yet have picked the right line but because it looked funny once down I talked myself out of the shot and steered the ball out of the hole.

There is definitely a reason for those shots to be on the DVD, and using the practice sheet that was circulated or going through the DVD and making your own notes is well worth the effort, and obviously overlooked by a lot of detractors and people who try a little and say they can't get it. Between the DVD, all of the information here on the forum, the extra support videos Stan did, and a bit of practice, no reason why someone can't quickly develop at least some basic competence with the system.

Scott

 

[GaryB]

Stan will the new DVD have a "Glossary" that includes bridge lengths?

Other things seem to be slowly coming together and it is of course due to table time and nuggets I pick up from threads like this.

 

[gazman100]

The reason why you don't pivot on the DVD is not explained for some reason. Which I felt was unfortunate.
It is simply explained that the reason the ball did not go in the pocket is because there was no pivot
I personally understand why you have to pivot with a pivot system however many don't.
Pivoting puts you directly into the shot line, if you don't pivot it doesn't, this is what makes CTE magic.
Hopefully Stan will address this in his DVD 2.
Cheers
You have to admire Dave as he really knows his stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij38hYBti4c

 

[stan shuffett]

The reason why you don't pivot on the DVD is not explained for some reason. Which I felt was unfortunate.
It is simply explained that the reason the ball did not go in the pocket is because there was no pivot
I personally understand why you have to pivot with a pivot system however many don't.
Pivoting puts you directly into the shot line, if you don't pivot it doesn't, this is what makes CTE magic.
Hopefully Stan will address this in his DVD 2.
Cheers
You have to admire Dave as he really knows his stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij38hYBti4c

I do NOT actually understand your initial question.

CTE is a visual system and pivoting is WAY overrated.

CTE is all about establishing consistent visual correct offsets that connect with pockets when followed by a rotation to CCB. That left or right movement is always equal to a 1/2 tip manual pivot in CTE PRO ONE.

CTE is SEE and SHOOT. It is a continual self refinement system because of its objectivity.

DVD2 should cover the topic well enough to suit you.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

The reason why you don't pivot on the DVD is not explained for some reason. Which I felt was unfortunate.
It is simply explained that the reason the ball did not go in the pocket is because there was no pivot
I personally understand why you have to pivot with a pivot system however many don't.
Pivoting puts you directly into the shot line, if you don't pivot it doesn't, this is what makes CTE magic.
Hopefully Stan will address this in his DVD 2.
Cheers
You have to admire Dave as he really knows his stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij38hYBti4c

I have reread the above and will take a stab at your question as to why some do not pivot.

There's a zillion shots on a table.
The only real objective shots that could exist are center to center, a half ball- center to edge shot and an extremely thin edge to edge cut. Those 3 shots can be executed accurately without a pivot. All of the other near zillion shots have no objectivity. You're either dealing with CPs that can't be seen or GBs which sre invisible or fractional guesses with the OB. So, someone that does not pivot would have to play this game moving 100% straight in on something that can't be seen other than the 3 objective shots I mentioned above. (I would have to be convinced that any single pro makes a practice of moving straight in on their shots.)

In CTE PRO ONE there is OBJECTIVITY for every shot. The 2 CTE visuals make all shots. It's a matter of simple repeatable offsets and then shoot. The rotation to CCB is so slight that many do not even recognize that the rotation or sweep is occurring from an offset.

More importantly is that CTE visuals represent an offset that connects to pockets. All offsets are the same just as shooting a straight in shot.

For straight ins, just offset correctly and sweep to CCB and shoot. Well, CCB to COB is friendly because we recognize CENTER to CENTER as objective.
All other shots are the exact same....you just learn to trust it. The mindset in CTE PRO ONE is that all shots are like center to center alignments.

It's easy to bend down or sweep left for a center to center shot. Every shot in CTE is the same, you just usually do not have that other center there. You learn to trust the system and fend off the OB distortions.

It is like Hal said many, many times. Just see it and whack it. In other words see and trust your move to CCB. Once you learn what to look at you are on your way...CTE is primarily a visual system that can be backed up with proof by use of pivoting with a fixed CB.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

The reason why you don't pivot on the DVD is not explained for some reason. Which I felt was unfortunate.
It is simply explained that the reason the ball did not go in the pocket is because there was no pivot
I personally understand why you have to pivot with a pivot system however many don't.
Pivoting puts you directly into the shot line, if you don't pivot it doesn't, this is what makes CTE magic.
Hopefully Stan will address this in his DVD 2.
Cheers
You have to admire Dave as he really knows his stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij38hYBti4c

(A sweep is effectively a pivot in case you are thinking it isn't.)

I did address pivoting in DVD1 based on specific visuals and a DEFINED objective 1/2 tip pivot. If a player wants to play by pivoting their cue to one half of the cue ball, that's fine. (But remember, the eyes always lead to that half cue ball and it's a best practice to eliminate the unnecessary cue movement on the way to the shot line.) There's no rule against manual pivoting but most all players will progress to natural sweeps. REAL CTE is about the eyes and objectivity NOT about some strict cue pivoting formula.

The ultimate magic for CTE are the objective visuals that one can use at ball address for the initial connection with table geometry rather than CPs, GBs or fractions.

Hal used to amaze onlookers with his demos. The onlookers would walk away thinking the magic was in his pivot. The real magic was that Hal knew what to see. Hal could have done his demos with a variety of moves to middle cue ball to include a simple sweep but the pivot was his attention getter. Hal knew the offset existed while most others were unaware even as they mostly are today. A player today could effectively learn CTE if the only thing they learned were the visuals. Yes, the learning curve would be longer but the end result would be the same. Hal, during his many phone calls to interested students of CTE, was mainly concerned with getting students to begin seeing CTE and shooting. He knew in time that offsets would occur to the actual CTE line and balls would start dropping even if they could not explain why.

CTE is SEE and SHOOT!

Stan Shuffett

 

[CJ Wiley]

I can't believe it's only been a year since last time we spoke in person.

(A sweep is effectively a pivot in case you are thinking it isn't.)

I did address pivoting in DVD1 based on specific visuals and a DEFINED objective 1/2 tip pivot. If a player wants to play by pivoting their cue to one half of the cue ball, that's fine. (But remember, the eyes always lead to that half cue ball and it's a best practice to eliminate the unnecessary cue movement on the way to the shot line.) There's no rule against manual pivoting but most all players will progress to natural sweeps. REAL CTE is about the eyes and objectivity NOT about some strict cue pivoting formula.

The ultimate magic for CTE are the objective visuals that one can use at ball address for the initial connection with table geometry rather than CPs, GBs or fractions.

Hal used to amaze onlookers with his demos. The onlookers would walk away thinking the magic was in his pivot. The real magic was that Hal knew what to see. Hal could have done his demos with a variety of moves to middle cue ball to include a simple sweep but the pivot was his attention getter. Hal knew the offset existed while most others were unaware even as they mostly are today. A player today could effectively learn CTE if the only thing they learned were the visuals. Yes, the learning curve would be longer but the end result would be the same. Hal, during his many phone calls to interested students of CTE, was mainly concerned with getting students to begin seeing CTE and shooting. He knew in time that offsets would occur to the actual CTE line and balls would start dropping even if they could not explain why.

CTE is SEE and SHOOT!

Stan Shuffett

Are you coming to Tunica, Stan? Let me know if you are, maybe we can get together for some coffee or something. I can't believe it's only been a year since last time we spoke in person.

Play Well

 

[stan shuffett]

Are you coming to Tunica, Stan? Let me know if you are, maybe we can get together for some coffee or something. I can't believe it's only been a year since last time we spoke in person.

Play Well

No, CJ, I will not make it this time, unfortunately. Landon is in transition from high school to college and my daughter is competing in our Miss Kentucky pageant this coming. week.
Also, I am still busy with finishing my video and doing lessons as well.
Yes, I agree, it's been a quick year.
I do look forward to when can visit again.
Good luck next week!
Stan