CTE/PRO ONE video--CANCELLED

Thanks, JB. Yes, a video is needed. I appreciate your support.

Stan

Stan I think many of the Members of this Forum have not a CLUE, as too how much time, money, effort, etc. It take to make a salable product. Plus in many case it could take a year or more of sale to see a PROFIT from from your INVESTMENT.

I hope in the future you do the Video, but I honestly don't think the money is to be made in selling Video with all of the negatives in make a good one.

Little Joe has had two winners in his Pool IQ Videos, and has been trying to do a #3, that apparently will be out someday.
 
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Stan I sincerely hope that you can work it out and produce this video. It is sorely needed.
Agreed ... and ditto!

Until CTE is described, illustrated, and demonstrated completely in clear terms in an instructional book and/or video, it will remain on the Internet as a "mysterious religion" surrounded by controversy (as it has for the last 10-15 years).

If CTE is even half as good as many of the proponents and supporters suggest, a DVD project could be quite successful and profitable. Even if CTE isn't the best thing since sliced bread, a DVD still has a good chance to do well as a result of all of the hype and controversy. I think both supporters and skeptics would purchase a book or DVD related to CTE, if it is well done.

Regards,
Dave
 
Stan I think many of the Members of this Forum have not a CLUE, as too how much time, money, effort, etc. It take to make a salable product. Plus in many case it could take a year or more of sale to see a PROFIT from from your INVESTMENT.

I hope in the future you do the Video, but I honestly don't think the money is to be made in selling Video with all of the negatives in make a good one.

Little Joe has had two winners in his Pool IQ Videos, and has been trying to do a #3, that apparently will be out someday.

And you're the same guy who told Stan he shouldn't charge any more than $30 for his video.
 
And you're the same guy who told Stan he shouldn't charge any more than $30 for his video.

What does that have to do with anything? How many great Pool Instructional DVD's, or CD's can you buy for $30.00 or less + S & H.

I will link a couple. Or as Lawrence Welk use to say, a ONE, and a TWO, and a THREE!:wink:


NUFF SAID!

Or you can watch this guy and learn a thing or two for FREE!!!!
 
"Legal issue" is a totally understandable reason. Thanks for sharing that. When that or those issues are resolved I want to be towards the head of the line when your video comes out. In the meantime train a few acolytes to travel the country teaching the system and send the first one to So. Calif. lol
 
Thanks, JB. Yes, a video is needed. I appreciate your support.

Stan

Some of the people on this forum, several of them having posted in this very thread, need to take notice of how Stan presents himself and the sport through his posts. Always professional, supportive, good spelling, good grammar. Doesn't get caught up in the BS. Doesn't fall into the traps laid by trolls. He is here representing a product, which makes him a representative of the game. Good job sir, please keep it up.
 
Some of the people on this forum, several of them having posted in this very thread, need to take notice of how Stan presents himself and the sport through his posts. Always professional, supportive, good spelling, good grammar. Doesn't get caught up in the BS. Doesn't fall into the traps laid by trolls. He is here representing a product, which makes him a representative of the game. Good job sir, please keep it up.

Well I have never aspired to be a good representative of the sport. Nor do I care how any one perceives my "product" through the posts I make.

I represent the sport in my own way and that's to encourage people to follow the model set by Bruce-Cocobolo Cowboy which is to get out there and find people who can be brought into the game, such as the young people at the Boys and Girls clubs.

Many members here can tell you that instead of giving them a discount on their case orders I pay them instead to go out and volunteer their time.

I care about the truth of things - maybe Stan is to polite to answer the trolls who spout out terms like snake-oil salesman and fraud but I am not.

Stan started this video project partly to clear his name - that was made clear by him in his first post in the thread he started to announce it.

He shouldn't have to clear his name. In this country the burden of proof is on the accuser.

There are many folks here who claim CTE does not work, is not exact, relies on making people hallucinate etc... They then attach that claim to insults of the snake-oil/fraud variety when speaking of people who teach CTE.

Why don't those people go out and learn CTE thoroughly and then do their videos with proper analysis to prove their assertions?

Put it to bed once and for all or at least provide something concrete to discuss.

But not once - not one time has any one of these people posted IN THEIR OWN WORDS what exactly the steps are to use the Center to Edge method of aiming.

So it leads me to believe that they either don't know the steps or are unsure if what they do know is right or not.

Gee, instead of arguing about it, how about Dave Alciatore calls Dave Segal and they schedule a web cam conference where they can both be at the table and figure it out????

My point would be that at the end of the call Dave A would know what Dave S knows and he could ask Dave S all the pertinent questions regarding how to do it.

But no! That would be too nice and too easy wouldn't it?

You would think that a scholar of billiard physics would want to understand every little thing about some aiming system that people are raving about. To me the logical thing is to go to the source if available.

Right now in our little world the three sources who seem to know the most about CTE are Hal Houle, Dave Segal and Stan Shuffet, all three of whom are available and friendly people.

So make nice with them (probably too late) record everything to be sure you got the data saved, work with it and THEN make your own observations based on your own experience.

Who knows maybe Dave Alciatore would have some brilliant insight based on his engineering experience that would be the key to diagramming the how and why this works on the nuts and bolts side. Then if he STILL felt that there are subconscious adjustments going on then he could say when and where these adjustments are occurring.

But as it stands he shows me nothing to indicate that he understands the nuts and bolts of the aiming system but still mocks it while plagiarizing other people's work to describe something that he can't do.

So no, I am not going to be polite and "professional" here. I make cue cases. My cue cases are the best because I take the time to acquire everyone else's cue cases and study them so I can make sure that ours are as good or better than theirs.

I don't make instructional videos for profit so I don't have a financial stake in being right. Dave Alciatore is on record as saying that it's snake oil and that proponents of CTE are frauds. He has latched onto "subconscious adjustments" as his theory of why CTE works. So he has a financial stake in being right since he would like to be considered an authority on all things pool.

Which is completely understandable. I admire the work he has done and whenever I am next in the USA I will acquire a copy of his VEPS. I was instrumental in pushing Sterling to carry to carry his other DVD and I see no reason not to sell the VEPS.

I do disagree with his approach to CTE and how he is handling it. As to the other people who make silly comments about frauds and snake oil salesmen - I will be the one that NEVER EVER allows them the last word in an online debate such as this.

Sincerely,

John Barton
Cue Case Maker
Sterling Gaming Product Development Manager
Pool Player
 
Why don't those people go out and learn CTE thoroughly and then do their videos with proper analysis to prove their assertions?

From someone who is objective on the subject... (don't know the system, not worried about learning the system at this time, just interested on most things regarding pool.... I've no dog in this fight) I think this is part of the problem.

If I read it correctly, there are only three "experts" on CTE, those who would be qualified to teach/explain it. Hal Houle, who for whatever reason doesn't not want it shown on this forum or in video form or for whatever reason. Gotta see him in person, period. SpiderWeb Dave, who defers to Hal's wishes. And Stan Shuffert, who was willing to do the video, but has backtracked a little, due to a legal issue.

If one cannot travel to see one of these three and get the "real" explanation in person, then one cannot learn "real CTE". That seems to be the summation by those who know. Everyone else is getting pieces of the pie, but not the whole thing. And then they are making decisions about learning an incomplete method or system.

That is one mans summation after reading all of these threads, these last several months.

I cannot travel for pool. I'm sure many, many others cannot travel for pool. Yet we can all learn from a variety of sources; DVD's, YouTube videos, books & magazines, and the internet. And if this system, which is SO revered by you and many others, isn't available to be learned without "going to the mountain", then you are bound to receive push-back. We also know that the written word, on the internet, often comes out very differently than it would in a face to face discussion, so things become heated rather quickly. From both camps. I have a feeling that were we to get you and CreeDo in a room together, the discussions wouldn't go anywhere near how they have occurred here online.

John, it is clear that you are passionate about this subject. It is clear that you fully endorse CTE, and those who are it's proponents. There is nothing wrong with that, and I can understand your wanting to defend those people when you feel they have been slighted.

I have only been on this forum since late last year, and I've enjoyed reading your comments here.

I hope that you can relax a little and realize that everyone can agree to disagree. And that it is understandable for people to be a bit skeptical of anything touted to be the "absolute best" method of doing anything, especially if it isn't easily explained.

Take care, and have some fun today.
 
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Some of the people on this forum, several of them having posted in this very thread, need to take notice of how Stan presents himself and the sport through his posts. Always professional, supportive, good spelling, good grammar. Doesn't get caught up in the BS. Doesn't fall into the traps laid by trolls. He is here representing a product, which makes him a representative of the game. Good job sir, please keep it up.
Great post.

Without question, Stan seems like a great person and consummate professional. And, even without CTE, I'm sure he would still be a great instructor.

Stan's the man.

Regards,
Dave
 
Dave Alciatore is on record as saying that it's snake oil and that proponents of CTE are frauds.
John, I think you are wrong and inappropriate here. Please show me where this is "on record." I certainly don't believe or agree with these statements, and I certainly hope I have never written something so insulting. If I have ever used words like this, I will be happy to offer a sincere apology.

I am absolutely sure that the CTE proponents strongly believe in what they are teaching, and I also know that some people can use CTE quite effectively. Even if I am skeptical of some of the "claims" sometimes made by CTE proponents, I will never accuse them of being frauds. That is a strong (almost criminal) accusation. However, I will continue to disagree and question things when I think something is unclear or inappropriate.

I admire the work he has done and whenever I am next in the USA I will acquire a copy of his VEPS. I was instrumental in pushing Sterling to carry to carry his other DVD and I see no reason not to sell the VEPS.
I didn't make the connection. I remember your name from my early communications with Sterling. I've also talked to Sterling recently about having them also carry VEPS. I hope they do, because I think they could do well with it.

I appreciate that you still value my instructional products despite our "disagreements" online.

Regards,
Dave
 
Here are five more. :grin-square:

Regards,
Dave

$32.45 On the YOUR Door STEP. 5 of Dr. Dave's Dave. Buy some today so Dr. Dave can fund his next new.
porsche%20cayman-thumb.jpg
 
Gary I read Stan post, and comment in the thread. Pardom me but I did not see him mention, "Legal issue", what post # was "Legal issue" in????

Coco, this thread, page 4, post 51.

"I cancelled or postponed because of a very uncertain legal hurdle. Should that change then I will proceed with a very high quality professional video production covering all aspects of CTE from a players perspective."
 
Well I have never aspired to be a good representative of the sport. Nor do I care how any one perceives my "product" through the posts I make.

I represent the sport in my own way and that's to encourage people to follow the model set by Bruce-Cocobolo Cowboy which is to get out there and find people who can be brought into the game, such as the young people at the Boys and Girls clubs.

Many members here can tell you that instead of giving them a discount on their case orders I pay them instead to go out and volunteer their time.

I care about the truth of things - maybe Stan is to polite to answer the trolls who spout out terms like snake-oil salesman and fraud but I am not.

Stan started this video project partly to clear his name - that was made clear by him in his first post in the thread he started to announce it.

He shouldn't have to clear his name. In this country the burden of proof is on the accuser.

There are many folks here who claim CTE does not work, is not exact, relies on making people hallucinate etc... They then attach that claim to insults of the snake-oil/fraud variety when speaking of people who teach CTE.

Why don't those people go out and learn CTE thoroughly and then do their videos with proper analysis to prove their assertions?

Put it to bed once and for all or at least provide something concrete to discuss.

But not once - not one time has any one of these people posted IN THEIR OWN WORDS what exactly the steps are to use the Center to Edge method of aiming.

So it leads me to believe that they either don't know the steps or are unsure if what they do know is right or not.

Gee, instead of arguing about it, how about Dave Alciatore calls Dave Segal and they schedule a web cam conference where they can both be at the table and figure it out????

My point would be that at the end of the call Dave A would know what Dave S knows and he could ask Dave S all the pertinent questions regarding how to do it.

But no! That would be too nice and too easy wouldn't it?

You would think that a scholar of billiard physics would want to understand every little thing about some aiming system that people are raving about. To me the logical thing is to go to the source if available.

Right now in our little world the three sources who seem to know the most about CTE are Hal Houle, Dave Segal and Stan Shuffet, all three of whom are available and friendly people.

So make nice with them (probably too late) record everything to be sure you got the data saved, work with it and THEN make your own observations based on your own experience.

Who knows maybe Dave Alciatore would have some brilliant insight based on his engineering experience that would be the key to diagramming the how and why this works on the nuts and bolts side. Then if he STILL felt that there are subconscious adjustments going on then he could say when and where these adjustments are occurring.

But as it stands he shows me nothing to indicate that he understands the nuts and bolts of the aiming system but still mocks it while plagiarizing other people's work to describe something that he can't do.

So no, I am not going to be polite and "professional" here. I make cue cases. My cue cases are the best because I take the time to acquire everyone else's cue cases and study them so I can make sure that ours are as good or better than theirs.

I don't make instructional videos for profit so I don't have a financial stake in being right. Dave Alciatore is on record as saying that it's snake oil and that proponents of CTE are frauds. He has latched onto "subconscious adjustments" as his theory of why CTE works. So he has a financial stake in being right since he would like to be considered an authority on all things pool.

Which is completely understandable. I admire the work he has done and whenever I am next in the USA I will acquire a copy of his VEPS. I was instrumental in pushing Sterling to carry to carry his other DVD and I see no reason not to sell the VEPS.

I do disagree with his approach to CTE and how he is handling it. As to the other people who make silly comments about frauds and snake oil salesmen - I will be the one that NEVER EVER allows them the last word in an online debate such as this.

Sincerely,

John Barton
Cue Case Maker
Sterling Gaming Product Development Manager
Pool Player

*Yawn* TLTR
 
Based on all of the "buzz" concerning CTE, I'm sure Stan could be driving something like this if he ever comes out with his DVD, which I hope he still does.

Regards,
Dave

Dave, I'm actually in line for a new car as Landon'll soon be getting my VW. He will be 16 this July.

I doubt if my new car would be a Porche,though. I'm in the midst of 8 to 10 years of college funding for my son and daughter. If a video should happen, then a little money to help with their education would be great.

If I do a video, it will be for the right reasons. First, there are folks in Greece, Brazil, Romania and lots of other places that would like to have this knowledge. There's plenty of interest across the U.S. as well. Many people can't make their way to Kentucky.

Should a video happen, it will be because I will love undertaking the project. If I were to make a little money then as I mentioned previously, "College ain't cheap".

My efforts to make a video happen are in place. We'll see what happens.

Stan
 
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Coco, this thread, page 4, post 51.

"I cancelled or postponed because of a very uncertain legal hurdle. Should that change then I will proceed with a very high quality professional video production covering all aspects of CTE from a players perspective."


Thank you so much as I searched for "Legal issue", and id not find those words by Stand. Again than for the clarification!
:wink:
 
Should a video happen, it will be because I will love undertaking the project. If I were to make a little money then as I mentioned previously, "College ain't cheap".

My efforts to make a video happen are in place. We'll see what happens.
Stan, I look forward to seeing your video, regardless of how long it might take. I wish you luck with your project.

BTW, if you have any questions or concerns about the video shooting, editing, manufacturing, or sales process, feel free to PM, e-mail, or call. I have a fair amount of experience now after the "Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards" and "Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots" projects. I also didn't do these projects "for the money;" but if they continue to do well, I will hopefully be able to retire from my "day job" sooner and put even more effort and time into my true passion.

Regards,
Dave
 
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