Ctel

GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the video I watched at a friends house it is written "That when eyes move right of the CTEL the pivot is right." "When the eyes move left of the CTEL the pivot is left."

My questions are if the CTEL is at the edge and how is it possible to move past that and have a line to pivot from? Is it supposed to mean that when the CTEL is to your left it is automatically a left pivot and when the CTEL is to your right the pivot is automatically right? I just want to make sure before I spend anymore time on this concept which I really like.
 
In the video I watched at a friends house it is written "That when eyes move right of the CTEL the pivot is right." "When the eyes move left of the CTEL the pivot is left."

My questions are if the CTEL is at the edge and how is it possible to move past that and have a line to pivot from? Is it supposed to mean that when the CTEL is to your left it is automatically a left pivot and when the CTEL is to your right the pivot is automatically right? I just want to make sure before I spend anymore time on this concept which I really like.

You are not talking about Pro 1.
 
Thanks. Then what am I talking about? In chapter 13 "Pro One Pivots" the 1st thing that appears is the printed quote that I asked the question about! If you can answer the question please do, if not please go review the DVD. The quote begins "PRO ONE IS A VISUAL SYSTEM." Below that heading is the quote I asked the questions about. I am looking at it on my TV screen right now.
 
In the video I watched at a friends house it is written "That when eyes move right of the CTEL the pivot is right." "When the eyes move left of the CTEL the pivot is left."

My questions are if the CTEL is at the edge and how is it possible to move past that and have a line to pivot from? Is it supposed to mean that when the CTEL is to your left it is automatically a left pivot and when the CTEL is to your right the pivot is automatically right? I just want to make sure before I spend anymore time on this concept which I really like.

I believe Stan is just defining what is meant by left pivot and right pivot. CTEL is just a perceptual reference point, you aren't pivoting off of this line. Your pivot may be right or left depending on the visual you have and the cut angle needed.
 
GaryB,

I didn't buy or have the DVD but read this that one is to pivot left and right for left cuts depending on the desired angle. I am prolly wrong.

Cte/pro one left cuts - 11-06-2012, 06:50 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A PROGRESSION OF LEFT CUTS FOR CTE/PRO ONE
The following GUIDE for left cuts can be reversed for right cuts.

1. THICK CUT SHOTS

A/CTE -OUTSIDE PIVOT

(A/CTE- INSIDE PIVOT)
(B/CTE-OUTSIDE PIVOT)
**A/CTE with an inside pivot is the same as B/CTE with an outside pivot. This is a primary reason that you experience very few Bs with an outside pivot. This interchange for A and B on the THICK side can work up to about 50 inches on a 9 foot table. This information is great for flexibility/options for the right handed/left handed players.
Please note: There are NO B shots after 4 diamonds of distance on a 9 foot table. Distance at 4 plus diamonds does not allow for a B aim point line with a CTE perception. There are NO B shots without a CTE perception.

2. TYPICAL CUT SHOTS

B/CTE-INSIDE PIVOT

3. THIN CUT SHOTS

C/WITHOUT THE CTE PERCEPTION- OUTSIDE PIVOT
C/WITHOUT THE CTE PERCEPTION-INSIDE PIVOT
These are single line visuals.

**The addition of C for left thin cuts and A for right thin cuts as OB aim points are my only update since my DVD was released. In a previous thread I indicated an Edge to Edge update for near straight-in shots but that was not a correct adjustment for CTE/PRO ONE. So, disregard my E to E earlier update as it was wrong. My first DVD is correct and complete with the additions of A and C single lines visuals for thin cuts.

4. EXTREMELY THIN CUTS

1/8 CB/OB OVERLAP- OUTSIDE PIVOT
1/8 CB/0B OVERLAP-INSIDE PIVOT


***I use the word pivot, now, only to describe manual pivoting. Technically, in PRO ONE, there is no pivot, just a left or right eye/body movement that eliminates the need for manual pivoting. I refer to what was once a pivot in PRO ONE now as a LEFT OR RIGHT VISUAL SWEEP.

CTE/PRO ONE is a visual system in which the eyes lead and the body follows.

Can all shots be made with a CTE perception? Yes, All shots go somewhere with the use of 2 visuals: A/CTE and B/CTE for left cuts. For right cuts: C/CTE and B/CTE. CTE shots may not always go to your desired pocket. So, there are adjustments. That’s what the A and C single line aim points on the thin side and the 1/8 single line visuals are for.

I do not associate OB aimpoints with specific angles because of the distance factor and the way those little spheres can present themselves on a rectangular surface. One example of this is that I can demonstrate an A shot on the thin side with a 20 degree angle and also an A shot on the thin side with a 49 degree angle.

Stan Shuffett

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=294985&highlight=CTE/PRO1
 
Thanks for the effort LAMas. Now I am having to deal with different terminology while lacking a proper dictionary. I never thought of myself as stupid until now at the age of 77. I understand that the DVD apparently gives me info that is incorrect since it has necessitated a change of terminology and I still don't have an answer to my question. I understand that it is a visual system and certain shots rely on perception as they are borderline. There is a CTEL, there is an edge to A,B or C. These I can perceive but what is the rule that determines the pivot? What appears on the DVD apparently is incorrect. The short YouTube demo that Stan recently did I understand--except that there is once again no mention of a rule the defines when I come in from the left or the right for my pivot. I, in my naiveté, really thought that it was a simple question. I guess I will have to wait until Stevie Moore comes back to So. Calif and get a lesson which I was planning to do anyway.
 
GaryB,
If you understand how to capture the CTE Line and the secondary visuals A, B, C and 1/8ths, but cannot achieve all of the necessary cut angles with only pivoting to the left...then try to fill in the other cut angles by pivoting to the right from A, B C and 1/8ths.:thumbup:
 
Ultimately you learn through repetition how to recognize whether a shot is left or right pivot. One will work, one will not. Technically if the shot needs thinning, you would use the pivot that thins the shot. If it needs thickening, you would use the pivot that thickens the shot. Through repetition, visual intelligence will make these choices automatic.
 
Ultimately you learn through repetition how to recognize whether a shot is left or right pivot. One will work, one will not. Technically if the shot needs thinning, you would use the pivot that thins the shot. If it needs thickening, you would use the pivot that thickens the shot. Through repetition, visual intelligence will make these choices automatic.

Spot on.:)
 
...there is once again no mention of a rule the defines when I come in from the left or the right for my pivot. ...

There is no hard and fast "rule."

For a cut to the right with a given pair of visuals, a right (inside) pivot or right visual sweep will create a thinner cut than would a left (outside) pivot or left visual sweep.

For a cut to the left with a given pair of visuals, a left (inside) pivot or left visual sweep will create a thinner cut than would a right (outside) pivot or right visual sweep.

Knowing which pivot or sweep to choose is just a matter of experience in shooting lots of shots at different angles.
 
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That makes it sound a lot like HAMB but with 4 lines thrown in. I realize that I don't pivot off of the CTEL because as Stan says repeatably Pro One
is a center ball system but he also says the "When the eyes move right of the CTEL the pivot is right. & "When the eyes move left of the CTEL the pivot is left". Does he mean when the eyes move left TOWARDS the CTEL the pivot is left and conversely when the eyes move right TOWARDS the CTEL the pivot is right?

I remember that when Hal Houle taught me Edge to the various fractions he also showed me quarter ball to the fractions as well. One of the main component of either system was alignment. He also mentioned that he was working on a new system that would replace all of the others that was approximately 16-17 yrs ago.















orking on a systemQuite a guy
 
That makes it sound a lot like HAMB but with 4 lines thrown in. I realize that I don't pivot off of the CTEL because as Stan says repeatably Pro One
is a center ball system but he also says the "When the eyes move right of the CTEL the pivot is right. & "When the eyes move left of the CTEL the pivot is left". Does he mean when the eyes move left TOWARDS the CTEL the pivot is left and conversely when the eyes move right TOWARDS the CTEL the pivot is right?

Just to mention, the pivots are off of the fixed CCB line, not CTEL. If you watch Stans sweep support video he clears that up pretty well. I also had this confusion from the first DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwI_62Npos

[edit] now that I re-read your original question, I think the above information will answer it.
 
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Thanks one and all for your efforts to answer my original question. I never thought that the pivot was off the CTEL as it was always abundantly clear that it was simply a line that enabled you to get the 2nd line at either A, B or C that in turn gave you a aiming line that in Manual CTE gave you a visual for your pivot and in Pro One gave a visual for, what is now referred to as a sweep. Now using this info I have HAMBS (Hit A Million Balls w Structure) I like the feeling when the decision is right because it feels pure.

As to my original question, it is apparent that the answer is unknown and was simply an editing error in the original tape.

My thanks to Stan Shuffet for answering my PM so promptly. It takes quite a man to take the time to answer the question of a stranger in detail like Stan did. However, I shouldn't be surprised as Hal Houle was also just such a man.

Once again, Thanks to all who honestly tried to help me.
 
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