Cue balance, revisited

[Bob Callahan]

In another thread, I recently posted a link to data about measuring cue balance from over a decade ago. A lot has changed since then, especially the wide-spread adaption of low-deflection shafts, which would be lighter at the end than the old shafts, possibly changing how cues balance. So, maybe it's time to measure things again. If you don't mind, and have a couple of spare minutes, where does your cue with a low-deflection shaft balance--measured from the tip?

Here's the old data:

 

[The_JV]

In another thread, I recently posted a link to data about measuring cue balance from over a decade ago. A lot has changed since then, especially the wide-spread adaption of low-deflection shafts, which would be lighter at the end than the old shafts, possibly changing how cues balance. So, maybe it's time to measure things again. If you don't mind, and have a couple of spare minutes, where does your cue with a low-deflection shaft balance--measured from the tip?

Here's the old data:

View attachment 798225

Suggest you either link the original thread or post the process of correctly measuring for balance point in this one.

I personally think this is the most useless characteristic of a cue, but will entertain it for sake of your curiosity.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Have you ever heard Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome, forget the small stuff, if you’re a Pool Player with SKILL. You can play with a House Cue well.

 

[garczar]

Suggest you either link the original thread or post the process of correctly measuring for balance point in this one.

I personally think this is the most useless characteristic of a cue, but will entertain it for sake of your curiosity.

Agree 100% here. Why people obsess over this minutia is beyond me.

 

[lfigueroa]

IMO, depending on a player’s PSR (or even lack of one) a cue’s balance point can dramatically affect a player’s quality of play.

If, for instance, you are the type of player who approaches the table holding your cue with just your grip and the business end of the cue is out in front floating around, it will be floating around on different axis’s dependent on the cues weight distribution, otherwise known as its balance point, and subsequently change how you get into shooting position and your final alignment.

People often wonder why they play significantly better with one cue v another. Often it’s different balance points generating different setups with the player unaware of what’s causing the change.

Lou Figueroa

 

[kling&allen]

IMO, depending on a player’s PSR (or even lack of one) a cue’s balance point can dramatically affect a player’s quality of play.

If, for instance, you are the type of player who approaches the table holding your cue with just your grip and the business end of the cue is out in front floating around, it will be floating around on different axis’s dependent on the cues weight distribution, otherwise known as its balance point, and subsequently change how you get into shooting position and your final alignment.

People often wonder why they play significantly better with one cue v another. Often it’s different balance points generating different setups with the player unaware of what’s causing the change.

Lou Figueroa

That’s the best reason I’ve heard.

 

[The_JV]

IMO, depending on a player’s PSR (or even lack of one) a cue’s balance point can dramatically affect a player’s quality of play.

I honestly struggle with this. Typically, advanced players of any sport/game are more sensitive to differences in equipment characteristics, and weaker tend to have any possible tangible variance cancelled out by poor overall play. However, if an advanced player can compensate for weight, tip size/hardness and length within a handful of shots. The notion of the balance point that lands within two fixed points 36-40" from each other presenting even an inconsequential difference in play seems unlikely.

If, for instance, you are the type of player who approaches the table holding your cue with just your grip and the business end of the cue is out in front floating around, it will be floating around on different axis’s dependent on the cues weight distribution, otherwise known as its balance point, and subsequently change how you get into shooting position and your final alignment.

Maybe this is a thing for players more advanced in years, and not ability...? Not trying to be ass. However the angle at which your cue is held while you're standing has zero effect on where you place your bridge hand. The rest of your mechanics is built off that bridge hand. If the balance point of your cue is throwing off your PSR/stroke mechanics, then it's in your best interest to cue up the workout montage and start curling a loaf of bread 3 times a week.

Balance point fixation is a placebo in weight bolt form.

People often wonder why they play significantly better with one cue v another. Often it’s different balance points generating different setups with the player unaware of what’s causing the change.

Man, I would love to see this proven in some shape or form. Could just be that I and everyone else I have ever spoken to about cues don't think balance points are worth talking about. These players range from banger to world class. I tend to think a supposed difference in ability to play with one cue vs another (assuming literally everything being equal) is driven more by a lack of expectation when playing with an unknown. This usually manifests in a player using less action on the CB which makes dealing with cue characteristics less of a factor.

This screams like an entertaining conversation. Not sure if we should high jack this one or not.

 

[lfigueroa]

Of course a player can adjust… IF you are aware something is going on.

But that would put you in the minority of players. And I don’t believe it has anything to do with age. Pool, at the higher levels, just requires more consistency and accuracy. If some days you’re rocketing in balls with a variety of spins and the next day that ability isn’t there…

I would also say that for some players it might not matter simply because of their particular PSR which in one way or the other makes it a non-issue. But for some guys, maybe their PSR allows it to become an issue they are aware of and can be addressed or perhaps for the majority (particularly those without a good PSR) they are left unaware and wonder why their game fluctuates. Not saying this would be the only issue at play but maybe a significant one.

Lou Figueroa

 

[jazznpool]

In my world as a cue merchant, the balance point is measured from the base of the cue buttcap. It's personal preference but I expect cues I receive to balance in the 18-1/2 to 20-1/2" range. There are too few people in the marketplace to accept a back heavy custom cue (below 18" baance) or a pronounced forward balanced cue (at 21" or more). As a player I prefer in the 18-3/4-19-1/2" balance range. I do find that I prefer a more forward balance with a heavier cue (for me 19.4 to 19.7 oz.). Just like shaft type and size, tip type, cue length and girth--these are all personal preference variables.

 

[tim913]

I don’t understand how the balance point could change your stance, unless you pick up an old instructional manual telling you your grip hand MUST be placed somewhere in relation to that balance point.
Whether I’m using a 58” custom cue or a 7‘ broomstick the CB is always the same distance from my bridge hand, unless I’m stretching or on the rail, and the forearm of my grip hand is perpendicular to the floor when tip is at CB. There will be a couple of feet of broomstick behind my grip but I’m in the exact same stance.
I do see how the balance point can affect the feel of the cue and how you might not like that, but you do something to correct that or find another cue
How the cue feels while holding it in the air is irrelevant as I could hold it up by the tip or butt, it’s how it feels when you’re in your stance stroking with both hands in play

 

[lfigueroa]

I don’t understand how the balance point could change your stance, unless you pick up an old instructional manual telling you your grip hand MUST be placed somewhere in relation to that balance point.
Whether I’m using a 58” custom cue or a 7‘ broomstick the CB is always the same distance from my bridge hand, unless I’m stretching or on the rail, and the forearm of my grip hand is perpendicular to the floor when tip is at CB. There will be a couple of feet of broomstick behind my grip but I’m in the exact same stance.
I do see how the balance point can affect the feel of the cue and how you might not like that, but you do something to correct that or find another cue
How the cue feels while holding it in the air is irrelevant as I could hold it up by the tip or butt, it’s how it feels when you’re in your stance stroking with both hands in play

I guess I could do a video to demonstrate… but I’m not that ambitious.

It’s just one of those things. I think some guys will understand others not.

Lou Figueroa

 

[tim913]

I guess I could do a video to demonstrate… but I’m not that ambitious.

It’s just one of those things. I think some guys will understand others not.

Lou Figueroa

Not saying you’re wrong I’m just missing something

 

[lfigueroa]

Not saying you’re wrong I’m just missing something

It could just be that you’re one of the guys it wouldn’t make a difference for.

Lou Figueroa

 

[dquarasr]

I have two Adam cues, one with a metal joint and one with a plastic joint. They weigh within a tenth of an ounce or two overall. The balance points are about 1.75” different from each other.

I can pretty much swap back and forth with the same CF shaft and notice no appreciable difference after a couple of shots. Even on those first few shots, it only feels different as I am holding the cue preparing to step into the shot. Once down the disparity is forgotten, goes unnoticed.

But I suck (APA 6, FR 424); those of you better than me may notice a difference.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Why hasn’t anyone brought how cue balance is influenced by a cue maker’s using a weight bolt for cue weight. Does a
15 ozs cue butt (sans any weight bolt) feel different matched with a 4 ounce shaft than a 15 oz. butt with a 1 oz weight
bolt, or heaven forbid, heavier? Do lighter weight bolts (1/4 oz. Headless) positioned in different places in a cue’s butt offer a more distributed weight addition? Do cue butts without any weight bolt offer any difference?

I have a three (3) cues without weight bolts whereas my others have very small ones. Bob Owen made both my cues with 14.5 oz. cue butts (1 with ivory butt) sans any weight bolts. And both cues have a lot of inlays and rings. So a cue maker can make a cue butt dead on without any metal bolt being used to make the customer’s cue weight order. It is much harder to do that when you have to allow that any inlays, rings, cue joint type, butt material and diameter affect the butt’s final weight. Are cues without any weight bolt different? Well, I believe so and there seems to be a difference.

Remember the best cue makers also pay close attention to the cue’s shaft weight because it does play a big part in
deciding how the balance is achieved and more importantly, the tactile sensation of striking the ball. That’s an entirely
different topic than the one at hand. I suspect most players don’t know if their cue has a weight bolt or what it weighs.

What value is their sticking a single heavy bolt in the bottom of the cue aside from the customer now has the weight requested? Couldn’t the cue maker build a heavier butt requiring a smaller, lighter bolt? What the heck, would 3 or 4
1/4 oz. headless bolts placed inches apart in the butt distribute the added weigh better than a 1 oz. (or heavier) bolt
screwed in the ass of the cue. I believe a cue without any weight bolt, or else the lightest bolts needed, plays better.

Everyone has an opinion but my has been shaped by owning and playing with cues of both persuasions. However, my feelings were formed after having many conversations with different cue makers and one of them could be the best in
the world, IMO. Unfortunately, I don’t have one of his cues despite years of effort and now it’s too late. I guess what I’m
trying to say is I’m not just coming up with this on my own. I can’t build a cue but I sure do understand how it’s made.

 

[lfigueroa]

Many, many moons ago I was playing at The Palace in SF one late night with a college buddy.

A guy came in and wanted to sell us what I believe was a walnut National merry widow with a SS joint. And what I remember about that cue is that when you put it together and got into shooting position the cue felt like it was floating mid air. Never had another cue in my hands that felt that way.

He wanted $50.

Lou Figueroa
poor college student
at the time

 

[xX-Wizard-Xx]

people dwell on to much now .... work hard and play .... you will get there .. dont need any special chalk ... dont need a special cue ... dont need a special tip or shaft ... any of that. you can play with a broom stick if you want .... everything else is marketing ... predator has done well convincing sheep to spend money

 

[Paul_#_]

37" Players butt and Revo shaft; Same as Players butt w. Players shaft and same as Viper butt and Viper shaft.
38" Viper Dia de los Muertos and Cynergy 10.5 shaft
40" Huebler and Revo shaft
There might be a weight bolt in the Huebler (and I don't dare take out).

 

[j2pac]

IMO, depending on a player’s PSR (or even lack of one) a cue’s balance point can dramatically affect a player’s quality of play.

If, for instance, you are the type of player who approaches the table holding your cue with just your grip and the business end of the cue is out in front floating around, it will be floating around on different axis’s dependent on the cues weight distribution, otherwise known as its balance point, and subsequently change how you get into shooting position and your final alignment.

People often wonder why they play significantly better with one cue v another. Often it’s different balance points generating different setups with the player unaware of what’s causing the change.

Lou Figueroa

This. /\.
You don't buy a size 12 boot, if you wear a 10.5. Sure you can wear the size 12 boots, but your proper size will inherently feel better, and result in a more comfortable experience.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Imo, players' preference of balance points is dictated by their bridge lenght and/or grip location and firmness or looseness .
Those who hold their cues loosely or have slip or stroke slip might prefer more forward balanced cues .
Those who hold their cues firmly might prefer their cues to be lighter and more balanced to the rear .
Your prefernce might vary .
18.5 " from the bottom of a 58" cue is the base point or neutral these days.