Cue ball back on table - is this a scratch?

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derangedhermit

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If the cue ball goes in a pocket for what would be a scratch, but returns to and remains on the table bed without contacting anything but the pocket itself while in the pocket, is it a scratch? I think it isn't, but am not sure.
 
Cue ball went in the pocket, came back out, wasn't influenced by human contact.... it's not a foul. A ball has to go in and stay down for it to be down. I've seen plenty of balls go in and spin around the pocket...even all the way down... and pop back out. That ball wasn't made. Same goes with the cue ball.

R,

Greg
 
The answer is no, not a scratch, but only because the CB in your scenario did not contact another ball.

From the World Standardized rules:

8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
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BCAPL Rules:

Pocketed Ball

A ball that drops off the bed of the table into a pocket and remains there. A ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the table bed is not a pocketed ball. An object ball that comes to rest touching both the bed of the table and any ball or obstruction in a pocket is not a pocketed ball. (AR p. 66)

and:

Scratch
1. When the cue ball is pocketed on a shot.
2. When the cue ball touches any pocketed ball or obstruction in a pocket, regardless of whether the cue ball remains pocketed.
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So, it depends if there are any balls in the pocket already when the cue ball goes in, and if there are it depends if the cue ball contacted one of them. I suppose unless the CB hit the back of the pocket and came straight out that it would be assumed to have hit another ball if there was one in the pocket.

Obviously on a ball return table it would not be considered pocketed if it comes back out unless for some strange reason a ball was stuck in the pocket and hadn't made it into the return system.
 
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I remember reading or hearing that a cue ball that rides on top of the rail and returns to the table is a foul only if it rides along the wood portion.

I thought it was a big gray area and a horrible rule. Anyone have any insight?
 
I have seen teh CB jumped into the back ledge of the pocket where it comes back to to knock a ball from a pocket that it was not allowed to be potted in (obviously a nonstandard game) but perfectly legal.

It is only a scratch when it stays down or does not hit anything.
 
Luxury said:
I remember reading or hearing that a cue ball that rides on top of the rail and returns to the table is a foul only if it rides along the wood portion.

I thought it was a big gray area and a horrible rule. Anyone have any insight?
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In pool, it's OK to touch the wood. At carom you must keep the cue ball on the cloth-covered part.
 
Bob Jewett said:
In pool, it's OK to touch the wood. At carom you must keep the cue ball on the cloth-covered part.
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That's interesting, Bob. Doubtful a ball would ever come to rest on the cushion because of the profile, but what happens if a ball comes to rest on the wood rail? I mean if it's not a foul for the cue ball to contact the wood, is it not OK for it to come to rest there?
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
That's interesting, Bob. Doubtful a ball would ever come to rest on the cushion because of the profile, but what happens if a ball comes to rest on the wood rail?
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It's considered driven off the table if it doesn't return to the bed of the table.

If you're going up on the cushion, be careful that no chalk is on that rail as touching chalk is a foul in all games.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's considered driven off the table if it doesn't return to the bed of the table.

If you're going up on the cushion, be careful that no chalk is on that rail as touching chalk is a foul in all games.
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How about a ball hitting the light and then coming to rest on the bed of the table?
 
I used to play on olhausens a lot and they have very flat rails compared to other tables. I had a cue ball settle on the rail after the break shot and we came to the conclusion that if it didnt settle on the actual playing surface it was a foul. The way i see it, you cant expect your opponent to shoot from on top of the rail.

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk
 
I've actually heard of a situation where a guy was shooting a straight in to a side pocket. He hit it so hard that the OB hit the back of the pocket and popped right back out to the playing surface AND with enough spin on it to bring it to a dead stop..............................................he was not only NOT awarded the pocketed ball (of course) but was called foul for a "no-cushion" cause the OB only made contact with the back of the pocket and no rails?

Don't know what set of rules, and don't know if the call was correct, but I'm sure I've read about it somewhere.

dave
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
That's interesting, Bob. Doubtful a ball would ever come to rest on the cushion because of the profile, but what happens if a ball comes to rest on the wood rail? I mean if it's not a foul for the cue ball to contact the wood, is it not OK for it to come to rest there?
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You mean like this :D
unbelievable.jpg
 
Ok, what about this situation, and this actually happened a couple times at the former pool hall where I'm from. Don't know what kind of table or how the ball return system was in this table, but bar box. Ball is hit extremely hard into the side pocket, the ball goes down and comes up the OPPOSITE side pocket onto the table. What is the call here? Same thing? Not a pocketed ball nor a scratch (if the cue ball)?
 
Depending on the rules, a ball that enters the ball return system of the table is considered pocketed regardless of what it does later.

Depending on the rules, a ball that hits the pocket liner is considered to have been "driven to a rail" even if it fails to hit any green part of the rail.
 
At the Indiana state ACS tournament I miscued a straight shot to a corner.
The cueball topped the object ball, bounced in and out of the pocket.
The topped object ball slowly rolled into the same pocket.

Not a foul, and the shot was made. Sweet!
 
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