Cue ball fouls only rule
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Because most are played without a referee. There can be too much potential for disputes. Consider one example where your opponent stretches across the table to reach a shot, unbeknownst to him his shirt brushes a ball and you jump up an yell foul-he disputes it and accuses you of sharking him in the middle of his run. Or you suspect your opponent fouled on an object ball but didn't actually see it. Or you actually see it but he denies it. When a referee is not presiding it just eliminates these kinds of problems. The rule helps to avoid these problems.
Here's rule 1.16.1 from the World Standardized Rules:
1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.
Pool doesn't seem to have the same code as golf, where it is traditional for players to call penalties on themselves even if their playing opponent did not see the infraction.
Here's rule 1.16.1 from the World Standardized Rules:
1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.
Pool doesn't seem to have the same code as golf, where it is traditional for players to call penalties on themselves even if their playing opponent did not see the infraction.
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You know, that reasoning makes plenty of sense (lack of a ref). My first instinct was to say something like "because it's just too easy to do and it's rough to penalize someone for an almost unavoidable accident". But many say it's completely avoidable and there's no reason to think it's difficult to do those funky bridges and awkward humpbacked stretches etc. Then I thought "well because most games are between friends and stuff that doesn't substantially alter the game shouldn't be called a foul" ...except sometimes it does alter the game and even among friends I'll call it if someone taps the CB during a practice stroke or shoots without a foot on the floor.
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I've heard there are people who voluntarily play as if it's "all balls fouls" every day, even in practice and vs. friends. I'm curious about how difficult that feels to them. Do they have to compromise and not attempt some stretches, or get out a bridge when treetopped?
I have never made a serious effort to play this way but I get the feeling I'd have a hard time with it. I have gotten pretty good at stretching across the table with one toe barely on the ground, and I'm sure my shirt (well let's be honest, my belly) will mildly shift something from time to time without my noticing. And in situations where I'm planting an awkward treetopped bridge in between many balls I sometimes nudge one. My opponents are casual enough to let me just return them to the original spot. But I'd prolly be hosed if they got BIH every time it happened.
So, anyone force themselves to make the transition from casual ball-nudger to someone who is fully committed to playing as if it's all balls fouls? And was it tough for you?
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I've heard there are people who voluntarily play as if it's "all balls fouls" every day, even in practice and vs. friends. I'm curious about how difficult that feels to them. Do they have to compromise and not attempt some stretches, or get out a bridge when treetopped?
I have never made a serious effort to play this way but I get the feeling I'd have a hard time with it. I have gotten pretty good at stretching across the table with one toe barely on the ground, and I'm sure my shirt (well let's be honest, my belly) will mildly shift something from time to time without my noticing. And in situations where I'm planting an awkward treetopped bridge in between many balls I sometimes nudge one. My opponents are casual enough to let me just return them to the original spot. But I'd prolly be hosed if they got BIH every time it happened.
So, anyone force themselves to make the transition from casual ball-nudger to someone who is fully committed to playing as if it's all balls fouls? And was it tough for you?
Well, i never had any problems playing all ball fouls. In situation whereby both players are aware if a foul is committed , and simply not calling it because of cue ball fouls rule is absurd . I always call foul on myself if i know so even if opponent is unaware of it. Usually other party would ask what just happen. Others have done the same as far i can tell. Integrity is the key here. Even if i know opponent have foul, i would voice out and never had an opponent throw a fit over it.
Well, the short answer to your question is that many games are played cue ball fouls only because that's the rule when no ref is presiding. The reason as to why the rule exists is my take.
If you haven't seen any disputes erupt over object ball fouls you don't get out much. :smile: Just joking. I agree with you that I will also call a foul on myself if I've knowingly made one and won't usually have an issue with a foul my opponent calls on me that I wasn't aware had happened. And when playing "all fouls" in matches with casual matches with other regulars at my pool hall there is rarely an issue. I have a quasi regular straight pool match with a buddy played this way. We play for money but the stakes are not serious.
But while friendly matches for fun or low stakes is one thing, I have seen arguments happen many times in matches where there is significant action, especially where the two players are not friends and don't know each other, and in tournaments where all fouls were in force.
Perhaps there is another reason why the rule exists, I'd have to think about it. But this had always been my understanding as to the reason for the rule.
CreeDo, When I was younger we always played all fouls. And I also come from a straight pool background where these situations you are talking about happen pretty frequently because of the heavy traffic; you are often jacking up over balls to get to the CB. For me I just am more careful in these situations and will usually get my bridge hand in there and set it up before I bring the cue stick into the shot. And yes, I may tend to go to the mechanical bridge a little more often.
Really, even when playing cue ball fouls only, I try to be very careful not to disturbed the balls. But I probably just take more time and am perhaps am more deliberate if it's foul on all balls.
I guess playing all ball fouls in a friendly match in a local hall is no big deal to me because it's sort of like "OK, we know each other and I'm comfortable with you reffing for me and me for you. We trust each other so that's fine."
But I'm not sure if I'm in a tournament match or in action for some serious coinage with some guy I don't know and he doesn't know me from Adam I would want to play all fouls. I think I would rather protect myself from the potential arguments and just play cue ball fouls. It's one thing to tell your opponent his shirt moved an object ball an inch and please replace it to it's original position. It's quite another to tell him he fouled, his inning is over, now go sit down because it's my table, and by the way, "You are on 1, and I get BIH". lol. Can you imagine if you were on the hill and he was "on 2" when the foul occurs?
Yikes.
If you haven't seen any disputes erupt over object ball fouls you don't get out much. :smile: Just joking. I agree with you that I will also call a foul on myself if I've knowingly made one and won't usually have an issue with a foul my opponent calls on me that I wasn't aware had happened. And when playing "all fouls" in matches with casual matches with other regulars at my pool hall there is rarely an issue. I have a quasi regular straight pool match with a buddy played this way. We play for money but the stakes are not serious.
But while friendly matches for fun or low stakes is one thing, I have seen arguments happen many times in matches where there is significant action, especially where the two players are not friends and don't know each other, and in tournaments where all fouls were in force.
Perhaps there is another reason why the rule exists, I'd have to think about it. But this had always been my understanding as to the reason for the rule.
CreeDo, When I was younger we always played all fouls. And I also come from a straight pool background where these situations you are talking about happen pretty frequently because of the heavy traffic; you are often jacking up over balls to get to the CB. For me I just am more careful in these situations and will usually get my bridge hand in there and set it up before I bring the cue stick into the shot. And yes, I may tend to go to the mechanical bridge a little more often.
Really, even when playing cue ball fouls only, I try to be very careful not to disturbed the balls. But I probably just take more time and am perhaps am more deliberate if it's foul on all balls.
I guess playing all ball fouls in a friendly match in a local hall is no big deal to me because it's sort of like "OK, we know each other and I'm comfortable with you reffing for me and me for you. We trust each other so that's fine."
But I'm not sure if I'm in a tournament match or in action for some serious coinage with some guy I don't know and he doesn't know me from Adam I would want to play all fouls. I think I would rather protect myself from the potential arguments and just play cue ball fouls. It's one thing to tell your opponent his shirt moved an object ball an inch and please replace it to it's original position. It's quite another to tell him he fouled, his inning is over, now go sit down because it's my table, and by the way, "You are on 1, and I get BIH". lol. Can you imagine if you were on the hill and he was "on 2" when the foul occurs?
Yikes.
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I suspect you play mostly for fun. Do you call fouls on yourself that no one saw for $5000. ?
Would not be believable to anyone if i so i would anyway. So i am not even gonna try. Even if playing cue ball fouls only does not eliminate all arguments imo. It does reduce the chances for one, that i do agree.
I am from Asia too. That's why the concept is kinda new to me.
I second that emotion.