Cue Conversion

Hernan7

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey what's up guys !!! This time I have a new question. Well, I've been playing caroms with a pool cue, but to be honest I do not know the difference between a pool cue and a carom cue other than the size of the tip but I really don't know how that affects my playing. Here is the link to a previous thread that I posted showing some pictures of my cue, all I know is that my cue is a Myron cue. Could you guys tell me if it's necessary to make some changes to my cue in order to improve my game, and if so, what changes should my cue suffer in order to become a carom cue? Thank you very much for your time guys, I'll be waiting for your responses.
 
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This is the best summary of the differences I've seen
http://www.caromcues.com/CaromvsPoolCues.htm

Carom versus Pool Cues: In general, pool and carom players use distinctly different cues from one another. While certain individuals are skilled at both games using only one cue, they are the exception. Pool players predominantly use a 58-inch, 19 oz average weight cue with a 12.75 to 13.25 mm tip. The joint of a pool cue normally incorporates a steel bolt and may have a steel collar as well. Shaft flex varies widely among pool players, with entire segments of the population insisting that their particular taper and flex is THE ultimate and final solution to the hotly debated issue of "squirt," deflection, power, etc. The challenges and counter-challenges among pool cue makers over such matters is the marketing manager's dream (or nightmare, as the case may be.)

Carom players, on the other hand, whose distribution worldwide is probably greater than pool, have long since settled the issue to their general satisfaction. Carom cues are shorter, typically from 54 to 56 inches long, lighter, typically 16.5 to 18.5 ounces, and use 11-12 mm tips, only rarely smaller or larger. Carom cues traditionally have joints that include wooden threads on the end of the shaft, or some other joint that minimizes the weight in the joint because carom players prefer their cues to balance more under the hand. A carom cue has a thicker butt and commonly a much thicker joint than a pool cue, and the overall taper of the cue shaft, with a few notable exceptions, is nearly conical from joint to tip. Summarily, a carom cue is much stiffer than a pool cue. A carom ball weighs almost exactly an ounce more than a pool ball (some varieties even more); hence more energy is required to drive it around a table. A carom player wishes to develop such touch for the game that they can repeatedly control the distance a ball covers, perhaps after traveling 3 times around the table, to a final destination within 2 inches of a given spot on the table. A stiff cue permits developing that touch better than a flexible cue. Additionally, carom billiards uses much more controlled extreme english than pool. Being able to repeat the effect of a given english is vital to a carom player; a stiff shaft, which flexes less and absorbs less energy in the hit, permits that repeatability. Among carom players, the choice of cue length, weight, and tip is driven by the specific game, from the very light cue normally used in the "small" games, straight-rail and balkline, to the slightly heavier cues used for 3-cushion. The emphasis on stiffness is generally constant.

Hernan7 said:
Hey what's up guys !!! This time I have a new question. Well, I've been playing caroms with a pool cue, but to be honest I do not know the difference between a pool cue and a carom cue other than the size of the tip but I really don't know how that affects my playing. Here is the link to a previous thread that I posted showing some pictures of my cue, all I know is that my cue is a Myron cue. Could you guys tell me if it's necessary to make some changes to my cue in order to improve my game, and if so, what changes should my cue suffer in order to become a carom cue? Thank you very much for your time guys, I'll be waiting for your responses.
 
Hernan7 said:
Hey what's up guys !!! This time I have a new question. Well, I've been playing caroms with a pool cue, but to be honest I do not know the difference between a pool cue and a carom cue other than the size of the tip but I really don't know how that affects my playing. Here is the link to a previous thread that I posted showing some pictures of my cue, all I know is that my cue is a Myron cue. Could you guys tell me if it's necessary to make some changes to my cue in order to improve my game, and if so, what changes should my cue suffer in order to become a carom cue? Thank you very much for your time guys, I'll be waiting for your responses.

A carom cue is WAY different from a regular cue. As most of the answer has been said by eze123, the carom cue has more of a feel of a one-piece cue. That is: it does not have alot of deflection as a regular cue (due to the carom cue normally being Eurpoean taper and pool cues have Pro-taper), the weight is a little bit more further towards the tip, and it is shorter than a regulated pool cue. If you get a straight-rail/balkline carom cue, it weighs less because of easier masse shots.

BTW eze123, did you ever get that Frederic Caudron DVD?
I don't know if it was you or someone else, but you mentioned that it was still being delivered... I could be wrong. :(
 
I play 3C with a euro taper Schuler cue and I played pool with a regular $150-225 or so Viking predator pro taper stick. Play with a long, thin taper pool cue and then a short continuous taper cue and it's tough to adjust between the two.
I don't think you can really 'convert' your cue. You either learn to play with a pool cue and you can't go back, or you buy another cue and switch back and forth. I've played with my pool cue for kicks and to me, hitting say, a twice around the table shot with max english with a thin taper pool cue is like hitting a bowling ball - the shaft vibrates down your hand. You can do it, but it doesn't seem like it's the right tool for the job.

Yah, I did get the Caudron video, but I don't have a region free DVD player, so I have to do it on the computer via DVDshrink and all that and I haven't had the computer or personal bandwidth to do it. Funny you asked though - I got it decrypted and reauthored it with DVDshrink last night and you can watch the encryption preview so I saw parts of one disk last night in fast forward - he's playing straight, cadre? I think, and balkline. I was kind of surprised on this - he has this wood template thing that they use to draw the 18.x balklines with the corner anchors on and everything with. Always wondered how they did that.
I have to burn it off to a disc again so I can watch the damn thing, but now I'm psyched to see it. Probably easier playing 3C with a pool cue:D

SlickRick_PCS said:
A carom cue is WAY different from a regular cue. As most of the answer has been said by eze123, the carom cue has more of a feel of a one-piece cue. That is: it does not have alot of deflection as a regular cue (due to the carom cue normally being Eurpoean taper and pool cues have Pro-taper), the weight is a little bit more further towards the tip, and it is shorter than a regulated pool cue. If you get a straight-rail/balkline carom cue, it weighs less because of easier masse shots.

BTW eze123, did you ever get that Frederic Caudron DVD?
I don't know if it was you or someone else, but you mentioned that it was still being delivered... I could be wrong. :(
 
Thanks !!!

Thank you for your help guys, what I want to know now is if there is a way to convert my shaft into a carom shaft. That would be the best I can do right now because I have to save money for my semester in Paris, in other words I cannot buy another cue right now. I even thought about selling my guitar :( . I'll be waiting for your responses, thank you.
 
If your shaft has a Pro Taper for pool its probably impossible to convert it.
You can get a new shaft made with a conical taper but depending on the joint diameter vs shaft length this option may only give you a slightly better situation. An option I've seen to solve this issue is a shorter shaft.
It worked reasonably well.

Remember if you want a pure cone taper the starting diameter (joint) and ending diameter (tip) determines the length/taper. The greater the taper the shorter and stiffer the shaft and visa versa. As mentioned by eze123 pool cue joints are normally smaller. .875 dia joint is a typical on a carom cue.
 
Hernan7 said:
Thank you for your help guys, what I want to know now is if there is a way to convert my shaft into a carom shaft. That would be the best I can do right now because I have to save money for my semester in Paris, in other words I cannot buy another cue right now. I even thought about selling my guitar :( . I'll be waiting for your responses, thank you.

Oye Hernan, you're better off just keeping the guitar and going to good ol' Paris (I'm saying Pair-EE :p ) than just buying a regular carom cue. Your chances of rather getting a regular job and waisting around $400 for a carom cue is just better than selling your guitarra. :cool:

There is absolutely no way to convert a regular pool cue as a carom cue because the male part of a pool cue is on the butt half and the female is on the shaft. While, on the other hand, a carom cue is quite the opposite being that the wood male thread is on the shaft while the female section is on the butt section of the cue providing stability.

So if you are going to Paris, expect some hot carom tables waiting for you. Besides, France is the country where Carom was born. ;)
 
eze123 said:
I have to burn it off to a disc again so I can watch the damn thing, but now I'm psyched to see it.


I don't know how experienced you are with using DVDShrink, but the best way to burn a disc is to have DVD Decrypter already installed and to let Shrink kick it over to Decrypter automatically once the decryption/shrinking is done (just in case you weren't already doing that).
 
Ok guys, yesterday I played in the place that I normally play and I was able to talk to the best player that plays there. I asked him about my cue and he told me that the only thing that could be done to my cue is cut the ferrule. The ferrule of my shaft measures 1 inch, and from what I read in the differences between carom cues and pool cues, the ferrule of carom cues usually measures .430 inches. Since I have 2 shafts (one measures 12.75mm (diameter) and the other one 13.35mm (diameter), I thought that it could be a good idea to modify one of them, probably the one that measures 12.75 mm (diameter). What do you guys think about this?, any help will be much appreciate it, thanks !!!
 
Interesting experiment. Gut feeling is it won't help much. If you do it you may need to change the ferrule material. Short ferrules tend to crack if not the right stuff. Look it up in Ask The Cue Maker. You might just bring this wole matter to those guys anyway.

The main difference is the taper and stiffness of your shafts vs carom shafts not ferrule length.
 
It's my understanding that the Predator Z,or Z2, shaft is more conical than most pool cue shafts. If you can afford a new shaft that might be the way to go. Or not....
 
Just don't do it! If you want to play carom, go buy a new cue. You don't have to buy an expensive one. Just look around, I think a carom cue of 40-50 bucks will do the job for you. Perhaps, you can sell your poolcue and buy a carom cue. You can still play pool with a carom cue (I'm playing pool with a 3 cushion carom cue).

When you want to play carom, the first thing you need to know is, are you playing libre (free game) or 3 cushion. There is significant differences between those two carom games. When you are playing 3 cushion, you need a cue which has a length of 56-57 inches, weight between 18-19 ounce (forward balanced) and 12mm tip. If you are playing libre you need 54-55 inches, weight lower than 18 ounce and around 11mm tip.

Like said before a normal poolcue has too much vibration, less control and almost no feedback. When playing carom, you need to feel the shot. That's why it have wooden joint. You just can't apply enough english with a poolcue on carom balls.

But, if buying a new cue is really not an option. I would advise you not only cut the ferrule, but cut the shaft instead. Like the picture shown.
5efkf6.jpg


It will give you more control and lesser vibration. Install a 12mm carom ferrule, and get the top of the shaft sanded down from 12.75mm to 12mm.
 
JimS said:
It's my understanding that the Predator Z,or Z2, shaft is more conical than most pool cue shafts. If you can afford a new shaft that might be the way to go. Or not....

:D , I think buying a new carom cue would be lesser expensive than buying a Z-shaft.;)
 
As I said before, right now I cannot buy a new cue because the semester in Paris it's going to cost 5K, fortunately I will receive financial aid but still I would have to pay a significant amount of money. I have to pay that money by November so a new cue is definately not an option. I also thought that instead of buying a 40-50 bucks cue I could wait until I come back from Paris and get a 150-200 bucks cue, what do you guys think?. And as for the game I want to play it's 3 cushion, I've been playing for 4 months, and my current average with my pool cue is 0.225 (it took me 200 innings to score 45 points, I don't think is a bad average for a beginner). Another idea that came to my mind is to buy a carom cue in France, where the game was born. I would make the payment for the semester in Paris in November, but I would be going in January 2008 and would come back in May 2008. That means that I can save some momey from Nomvember to January, maybe sacrifice certain things during the holydays. Please let me know what you guys think, I really appreciate your help !!!
 
yeah, or destroying a perfectly good pool cue and then having to buy a carom cue anyway.

WesleyW said:
:D , I think buying a new carom cue would be lesser expensive than buying a Z-shaft.;)
 
eze123 said:
yeah, or destroying a perfectly good pool cue and then having to buy a carom cue anyway.

The thing is that I have two shafts, 12.75mm and 13.35 mm diameter and I don't play pool at all. I play pool maybe once or twice a year, whenever my friends want to play and I don't take my cue with me. And I wouldn't like to sell my cue, not only because it's my first cue, but because it's a gift from my dad. By the way, my dad would make the same modification to his cue, he has a Cuetec Earl Strickland.
 
Hernan7 said:
As I said before, right now I cannot buy a new cue because the semester in Paris it's going to cost 5K, fortunately I will receive financial aid but still I would have to pay a significant amount of money. I have to pay that money by November so a new cue is definately not an option. I also thought that instead of buying a 40-50 bucks cue I could wait until I come back from Paris and get a 150-200 bucks cue, what do you guys think?. And as for the game I want to play it's 3 cushion, I've been playing for 4 months, and my current average with my pool cue is 0.225 (it took me 200 innings to score 45 points, I don't think is a bad average for a beginner). Another idea that came to my mind is to buy a carom cue in France, where the game was born. I would make the payment for the semester in Paris in November, but I would be going in January 2008 and would come back in May 2008. That means that I can save some momey from Nomvember to January, maybe sacrifice certain things during the holydays. Please let me know what you guys think, I really appreciate your help !!!

Say Hernan, will you be working over in Paris?

Because if so, you're better off trying to work there and get some money to buy a carom cue there than bringing dollars to convert to Euros there.
Just remember: If you're gonna play freegame or balkline (a.k.a. libre o carde) get a light weight cue (around 16.5-17oz) with a 11.3mm European Taper diameter, wooden threaded shaft Carom cue and if you're just going for 3-cushion, just go for a heavier weight (17-18oz), 12mm (or slightly less) European tapered Carom cue in that matter.

Look on The GREAT! Frederic Caudron under FAQ for more info and Soren Sogaard for different kinds of cues that'll fancy your imagination :). Enjoy!
 
Hernan7 said:
...I also thought that instead of buying a 40-50 bucks cue I could wait until I come back from Paris and get a 150-200 bucks cue, what do you guys think?. And as for the game I want to play it's 3 cushion, I've been playing for 4 months, and my current average with my pool cue is 0.225...

If you are really into the billiard game, it will be better to save some money to buy a good carom cue.

0.225 isn't really really bad. I started with 0.3 and went to 0.5-0.6, but I stopped playing carom.

If you like to play 3 cushion, I would recommend you a 690-710mm (675mm is libre) shaft, with a 12mm tip and at least 510gram (18oz). Good choices would been Longoni or Raymond Ceulemans. Both sells cues with a 710mm shaft. I had owned a Longoni Black Fox, great balance, will cost around 250 bucks (the entry level are around 50 bucks cheaper) included a 710mm shaft. Raymond Ceulemans with a 710mm shaft start at 200 bucks.

I would recommend you buying a Longoni Black Fox with a Pro2+ (more forward balanced).

Hernan7 said:
...By the way, my dad would make the same modification to his cue, he has a Cuetec Earl Strickland.

I would not do that. Cuetec cues are very slim, too slim to play carom.

SlickRick_PCS said:
...for 3-cushion, just go for a heavier weight (17-18oz)...

I would not go lower than 18oz. My cue is 18.3oz and I still think it's too light to play 3 cushion. With a cue lower than 18oz, you will not get enough power.
 
Thank you very much for your help guys, I deciced to leave the cues as they are, as eze123 said, why destroy a good pool cue if I'm going to buy a carom cue anyway. And besides, from what you guys told me it seems that the modification wouldn't help much. I just got a job at school as a french and spanish tutor and have decided to save all the money I make there to buy a couple of carom cues in France, one for me and one for my dad. That is another reason why I love this game, because now my dad has become my best friend :D . Since I will be in France I'll put this link guys just in case any of you has the time to take a look at them and maybe advise me which cue would be good for me. Please remember that I've been playing, well that we, my dad and I, have been playing only for 4 months so we need a beginner's cue. I'm willing to spend 100 euros for each cue, which is around 140 dlls, unfortunataly that would be all I can afford, but to me it sounds reasonable because I'm a beginner. So I would spend 200 euros for both cues, maybe a little more. Since the webpage is in french, I'll leave some translations :D . Plus ?lev?s = Highest, Plus bas = lowest, toutes marques = all the brands. And I also found a carom cue in ebay selling for 35 bucks plus 25 shipping and handling. Take a look at it and let me know what you think. Thanks !!!

French Site
http://www.kozoom.com/fr/general/boutique-billard/12/11/

Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carom-Billiard-...ryZ21212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
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