Cue Design Theft?

[classiccues]

Joe,

I don't understand why you keep going back to your point that these styles of Ginas have to have silver work involved. I have seen as many examples of these styles of Ginas without silver as I have with silver, in fact, I have owned a couple of these styles of Ginas that did not have a stitch of silver in them.

Because Jimbo like to point out he posted links to the "exact" originals of these cues and his "pics" all have silver in them. BTW I have never encountered a 13d, 14b, 14e, or 16a without the silver. This is cue number one. Which BTW has very different rings than any Gina cue.

Joe

 

[classiccues]

Originally Posted by JimBo
Joe we can go back and forth all week, until you really understand the debate it can't be a debate. I'm sorry that you aren't smart enough to keep up. I'll try to go slow for you.
I'm talking about CUE DESIGN THEFT
you're talking about INSPIRED CUES
Big difference
I posted 2 pics Originals and COPIES
You want so bad to make me look dumb Joe here is your chance and it's O so easy, I just gave you a batting practice fast ball, hit her out of the park buddy.

Jim<<

Sure.. you posted a link to Gina cues. That are far and away not the cues that inspired the Phillippis. Your links to Lucky's site show a 14e or 14c ivory pointed Gina. The Phillippi is at best a try at a 13a. You have spouted off that you are against "exact" copies and here you don't even show proof. There are 2 Gina inspired Phillipi's posted and thats it. I am still waiting for YOU to show exact copies. Now if you want to change your wording, and "close" is ok, or that a % of the design borrowd is considered theft, then hang on pal, cause you will be calling every cuemaker a thief. Again, I know you will say the link doesn't work for you, (bs by the way) but the Schick I posted and the Stroud 8 point Gina inspired cue are as much a copy as these phillippi's and again you ain't saying crap.

Joe

 

[Fred Agnir]

The two Phillippis I posted at the beginning of this thread are IMO, blatant rip offs of Gina designs that Ernie popularized in his cues.

Exactly.

About a year or so later I'm walking through the Super Billiard Expo and I see a Phillippi with the exact inlay design. I couldn't believe it. I lost all respect for Phillippi's cues at that point. I have seen some very unique Phillippis so I now they have the talent to design cues without stealing someone else’s idea. I think this is what we are talking about here.

The funny thing about this paragraph is that every person on this thread that has a clue and is debating both sides have seen these cues at the SBE has AGREED with you in the past. I'm not sure why they would change their side of the argument now.

Fred <~~~ thinks ripping off designs is wrong

 

[Fred Agnir]

worminator said "I believe the Balabuska and Szamboti inspired cues are part of the industry since those makers started the true custom cue era."

you need to go back to your books son if you think these guys started the true custom cue era.

It might be a semantic issue, but we can break down the custom cue eras into several "eras." GB and GS certainly are the forefathers of the custom cue collecting boom we are experiencing now.

At the same time, though the period has overlapped, I think that Ernie is the father of today's modern cue art.

Fred

 

[larrynj1]

fred, we all know what's right and what's wrong here, it's the flip flopping on what is or isn't over the line that's being beaten to death.

 

[JimBo]

Joe your post is further proof that you really don't understand what a DESIGN is, or at least you choose not to understand to suite your argument. The fact that you go on to use the numbers is proof that you do, but again that would not suite your side so please continue to play dumb (ex. 14e) the fact is Ernie doesn't call the cues by letters and numbers he calls the second cue Rasputin, why it's not in the blue book I don't know. No matter which materials he uses doesn't change the fact that the design is the same.

Jim

 

[JoeyInCali]

Jim, what do you think about this cue?
http://www.cueauctions.com/cgi-bin/auction/item.pl?item=1709

 

[larrynj1]

how about this one?

 

[JimBo]

Jim, what do you think about this cue?
http://www.cueauctions.com/cgi-bin/auction/item.pl?item=1709

That cue is a Bushka inspired cue and probably contracted and maybe even sold by Joe, I can't say if it's a copy because I would need to see an original with the same elements. Again it's not an easy call with some older stuff unless you see both cues. Everyone used those same diamonds on 4 point cues, what it comes down to is how they arranged them, each guy had his own little twist on that, Palmer would just throw them up in the air and however they fell they fell (crooked and all) Many times you'll see some bad designs and my guess is those were people who called up and just wanted to have a cue a little more fancy then the other guy in the pool room, fancy = more inlays and there really wasn't much room to fit more of those diamonds and dots in those points. I'm not the Design police by no means, I just tried to bring something into the public's eye and expose it for what it is theft of intellectual property. Real artist would never do it, but cues are part of pool and I'm never disappointed when it comes to how low some things can go in the pool world. It all comes down to the almighty dollar.

Jim

 

[committeemember]

Please enlighten me...

harvey martin and herman rambo were the real originators of the custom cue son. they were making custom cues when your guys were pups.

 

[committeemember]

Until you show me the cue I made this "exact" copy from, you and I have nothing to say.

Joe

you aint got much to say anyway except some real ignorant spouting off about nothing. so if you change the stupid rings but copy everything else it aint a rip off? that's the most ignorant thing i heard in a long time. shame on you man for ordering cues from one cue maker to look like another cue makers design. why dont you try to have this guy make something of his own look instead of ripping off other cue makers? are you afraid you aint gonna sell anything then?

 

[Fred Agnir]

fred, we all know what's right and what's wrong here, it's the flip flopping on what is or isn't over the line that's being beaten to death.

Ok Larry. Here's your chance to add to a discussion. What is right? What is wrong? Who do you think flip flopped?

I've been one to actually read each post. I know exactly who did not flip flop. Not once. I also know the participants. I've heard one blatantly flip flop from his first post, and I said something about it immediately.

Again, Larry, what is your take? What is right? What is wrong? That's all that matters in this thread. The rest is 95% of the "readers" completely unable to read content.

Fred

 

[azbicyclis85376]

I can not believe this TREAT is still going. But has anyone thought that it is not possible to Clone a Cue, as Each and Every Piece of Wood is Different.

Copy close, but still a copy of an original....

 

[larrynj1]

i don't "need a chance to contribute" i already have -

jimblow, i understand my contribution to this thread ,and the other threads you managed to take over on this same subject, have been too subtle for you to understand. my posts have been intended to ridicule the importance you have placed on this subject, and the importance it seems to have taken in your life over the last two weeks or more.
do you get it now? i know you cannot possibly agree with this, but that's your perogitive. i suggest you go back and read your own bullshit for the last 100 posts and maybe you will understand.

let it go, dude.

 

[larrynj1]

and my additional contributions, now repeated for the 5 h time - jimbo, let it go.

jimblow, i believe i posted two times asking you to let it go. they were very relevent. btw, go count your posts on the other two threads you hijacked and/or started on this same subject. it is all very tedious as already mentioned above.

as far as flip flops, jimbo has approx 150 post on 3 or 4 different threads nearly continously for the last 30 days. there has to be some flip flopping in there, but i'm don't care enouh to go looking for exact quotes.besides, the flip flopping has already been quoted ad nausium.

please ladies, LET IT GO!!!

 

[drivermaker]

Ok Larry. Here's your chance to add to a discussion. What is right? What is wrong? Who do you think flip flopped?

Again, Larry, what is your take? What is right? What is wrong? That's all that matters in this thread. The rest is 95% of the "readers" completely unable to read content.
Fred

Fred is playing Tonto, or a bounty hunter, by finally tracking down the REAL
ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NIHILITY, of this thread and the entire forum. I've been dealing with it on the regular forum for a number of months and I've been pointing it out all along and tired of it. Good job Fred, I'm happy to see you're on the bandwagon in exposing a non-contributor for ANYTHING, but who somehow or another continues to be a crab in everyones crotch. Keep up the good work.

 

[buddha162]

there has to be some flip flopping in there, but i'm don't care enouh to go looking for exact quotes.besides, the flip flopping has already been quoted ad nausium.

please ladies, LET IT GO!!!

So in other words, you have nothing.

-Roger ~from Jersey, and do not see any flipflopping~

 

[classiccues]

you aint got much to say anyway except some real ignorant spouting off about nothing. so if you change the stupid rings but copy everything else it aint a rip off? that's the most ignorant thing i heard in a long time. shame on you man for ordering cues from one cue maker to look like another cue makers design. why dont you try to have this guy make something of his own look instead of ripping off other cue makers? are you afraid you aint gonna sell anything then?

So are you saying that all 6 point cues are going to be SW "copies"? BTW where is the cue that I made the Skip from? You know, since its an exact copy and all...

Joe

 

[classiccues]

Joe your post is further proof that you really don't understand what a DESIGN is, or at least you choose not to understand to suite your argument. The fact that you go on to use the numbers is proof that you do, but again that would not suite your side so please continue to play dumb (ex. 14e) the fact is Ernie doesn't call the cues by letters and numbers he calls the second cue Rasputin, why it's not in the blue book I don't know. No matter which materials he uses doesn't change the fact that the design is the same.

Jim

Again.. you said you posted links to exact copies, I am saying you didn't. You initially called one of the cues a 30th anniversary, and it isn't. You also still won't go after anyone but Phillippi. Showing further more that you leave the big guys, and your friends (may not be in the same category) alone. Thus proving my point. The fact is these cues are not the same as your link provided and the best that can be said about the Phillippi's is that they are Gina inspired.

Joe (---knows Jimbo will never say anything bad about cuemakers he will eventually be facing at some show or some other function

 

[classiccues]

That cue is a Bushka inspired cue and probably contracted and maybe even sold by Joe, I can't say if it's a copy because I would need to see an original with the same elements. Again it's not an easy call with some older stuff unless you see both cues. Everyone used those same diamonds on 4 point cues, what it comes down to is how they arranged them, each guy had his own little twist on that, Palmer would just throw them up in the air and however they fell they fell (crooked and all) Many times you'll see some bad designs and my guess is those were people who called up and just wanted to have a cue a little more fancy then the other guy in the pool room, fancy = more inlays and there really wasn't much room to fit more of those diamonds and dots in those points. I'm not the Design police by no means, I just tried to bring something into the public's eye and expose it for what it is theft of intellectual property. Real artist would never do it, but cues are part of pool and I'm never disappointed when it comes to how low some things can go in the pool world. It all comes down to the almighty dollar.

Jim

Man, are you a clown. The Schick and the Wayne link didn't work but this one did? Oh man you are chicken sh*t to say anything bad about anyone with a name.

Joe (--doesn't need to prove his point any further