Cue "Hit" rating system.

Well, like some have said, the tips make a big difference, the ferrules and joints and cue weight.

So you say Scruggs hits like 8 or something but your favorite tip is a Moori medium. Someone else wants a Sniper tip and another guy wants a Triangle tip. The next guy puts a break tip on it. Now you have to rate the tips too.
Some people love Ivory ferrules and some don't count for them, so they buy their cues to their liking.

The system just isn't going to work unless the whole system is standardized
with the same tips, ferrules, weight ect.

Also I think the same person, or group of experts will have to be the one to do the testing on all the cues.

If Joe says the Meucci is 8, the guy Bob in the bar says no way, it's a 4, and others say something different, then the system is crap, and worthless.

And in my opinion you should rate it as energy transfer efficiency.
You apply X amount of energy and measure the amount of energy transferred to the cue ball. People have tried this system with break cues.

I seen a video somewhere where they tested break cue efficiency by pointing the cue downwards, from a known height, then they drop it on a hard surface, and they used a high speed camera to film it. So if they drop the cue from 20 inches for example and it bounced back up about 10 inches, then they used some formula to get the efficiency. I guess maybe that is 50%, I am no physicist. If they drop another cue from 20 inches and it bounced 15 inches, then that cue is more powerful for a break cue.

Take 100,000 players from beginners to pros and they say they think this or that cue is 4 or 5 isn't going to work.
 
Impossible To many variables

So are we to believe that all Cues with the same brand name hit the same.
Come on, I think most of us know that is not true!
 
jensen_lover said:
All the more reason to quantify the "hit". Like I said experts could chime in. If an expert says this cue is a seven and then you hit with it, you now know how a seven feels and can better label your cues for prospective buyers. It was just a thought and I know how hard it is to quantify subjective information but someone has to be able to do it. We can start with the cue maker buildoff cues. Since 20 or so people will be hitting with them, that is 20 people that better understand the sytem. That becomes 40 then 80 and so on.
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We don't have any experts, many of them are just cue flippers. They use colorful words to sell cues. They're not interested and rarely will you see one post to something like this because they don't know either.

The so called experts should be the cue makers. Many of them however are busy just trying to make ends meet.

Personally I think sellers & cue makers need to list all the specs on a cue. Hit is just to subjective and few will agree anyway. I think buyers need to get better educated as well. All cues sold should have more detailed specs.

The standard specs are usually included, wood used, inlays, joint type, shaft size, ferrule material etc. However the most important part of a cue is rarely covered. That would be the shaft taper and butt taper, not to mention diameters along the length. That's the main reason some cues hit stiff or on the wimpy side. The tip of course plays a major role, its whats used to fine tune a cue to the players liking.

Have you ever tried to get those specs? It ain't easy. Rarely will they take the time to list it in the first place. Go ahead, check the adds it is rare. If you ask, some will deliver but usually its I don't know or don't have a way to measure or what ever the reason.

If buyers knew what they liked they stand a better chance of getting something they like. I sure many here have bought several cues only to find out they did not like the cue. When you find a cue near your liking write down the specs, what you like or don't like. You'll be a lot closer to finding a cue you really like.

The cue build off was a good idea, that took a lot of time and effort by ftgokie. My hats off to him for quite an undertaking. However I never read list or standard the testers go buy. A couple of the guys did a decent job but a lot of it is just to vague. I mean, I didn't like the cue tells us absolutely nothing.

I like you're intentions of this thread, trying to set standards but i think hit isn't going to work. Possibly soft med and hard etc could be used but as I know what feels med to me is like a brick to someone else. It is a start but when it comes down to it, its educating sellers and buyers on cue specs and how they change the feel of a cue.

The cue makers don't give that info unless you ask. I think its extinct here or on they're web site. Of course many will build them to your specs, but you have to know what you like. I know what I like should I have one built. I'm pretty sure if I had one built it would be perfect for me. Over the years I've never found one here with specs I like or if it was close I did not like the colors etc. Of course I've had a cue for years so close it makes little difference. Good luck in your efforts.

Rod
 
jensen_lover said:
I realize that no two people will feel the same about a cue, but if a certain cue is a three in my hands, it will still be a three in your hands. No matter what you call the number corresponding to how it hits, the number remains the same. No matter how you see the color yellow, it is still yellow to everyone. Your brain may pick yellow up in a different way than mine, be it you think yellow is a sharp color whereas I think it is a dull color, we both call it yellow. Once someone finds the perfect number for them, they can continue to buy playing cues at or near their number.
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What if I'm color blind?
:wink:

Here's a thought, the tip affects the hit as much as any part of the cue, with hundreds of tip brands out there, you'd have to measure every brands tip for "hit" but how do you do that? how can you measure the tip's hit when the rest of the cue affects the tip? I can put the same tip on two different cues and the tip would have a different hit... and so would the cue. Which is affecting which?

What if I put the same tip from one cue to it's completely identical "hit" twin. Well, I've just cut the tip... it's going to lose a bit of thickness and might hit harder. But if I cut it with a dull knife maybe I tore up the leather and made it spongy. Or maybe I let the glue soak in too long and made the tip harder. What if I measured the "hit" on the tip if it had been stored in a humid climate vs a dry one. I'd Imagine that would change the hit. What about hot and cold?

What if there was a pad under the tip? What's the material? is it hard or soft? Does it dampen the hit? does it make it more lively? Man I get tired trying to measure a tips hit and I can't even think about all the variables in the ferrule let alone the rest of the cue.

Any way, I realize you probably mean that cue at that time and at that moment... how does it hit. Well I don't think you're going to get a standard unless there are like 50 cues all of "hit rating 1" and 50 cues all of "hit rating 2" and so on to "hit rating 10" and then disperse all 50 sets of "hit rating 1 to 10" to different parts of the world and put them in a controlled environment for people to test their personal cues with. At the same time you'd need to test all the cues relative to each other at least a few times in it's lifetime to make sure the cue didn't season differently than it's 49 or so brothers and sisters and ultimately end up hitting different after a few years.

Another note, people use stiff and hard interchangably, the same for soft, or flexible. You couldn't use a one dimensional scale such as 1 to 10. You'd probably need a 2 dimensional scale with an X Y axis. left being hard, right being soft, up being stiff, down being flexible. Heck, maybe you need a 3 dimensional scale with an X Y and Z axis. Left being hard, right being soft, up being stiff, down being flexible, toward you being lively and away dull. Hmm but what about the temperature, I know that some of my cues with Ivory hit different with the temperature/humidity. Maybe this 3D scale should also be color coded to show how it hits in a humid/cold city vs a dry/ hot city. The dot on such scale should be color coded. hmm come to think about it, there's pretty much millions of ways to measure a cue's hit, maybe it's best to just describe it's specs instead of plotting the cue's hit on a color coded 3D scale.


Tired.... Sleepy....zzzzzzz
 
One thing you could quantify is how much energy is transferred to the cue ball. In golf, they have a device called a stimpmeter (sp?) to measure the speed of a green. A cue could be attached to a robotic device to swing the cue at a ball on a pool table and you could measure how far the ball travels.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Bob Meucci can design you a robot that can do just that.
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I seen vids of Bobs robot, maybe it was an accurate system , but it looked like it was a joke. The Predator group has a nice looking robot.

Another thing I didn't mention before is the shaft diameter and taper.
A 13.2mm Scruggs won't play anything like a 12.6mm Scruggs.


Hmmm.. seems like overall, people just don't think so highly of this Joe and Bob 1-10 hit system.
 
sly_shooter said:
Hmmm.. seems like overall, people just don't think so highly of this Joe and Bob 1-10 hit system.
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No kidding. I guess people on here are doomed to buy under the burden of tradition. And who the hell would drop a 2000+ dollar cue to see if it bounces? :)
 
sly_shooter said:
I seen vids of Bobs robot, maybe it was an accurate system , but it looked like it was a joke. The Predator group has a nice looking robot.
Click to expand...

Funny thread, judging industrial equipment based on a beer holder, setting strange and unusual criteria for judging cue performance, mixed in with a teeny-tiny bit of science.

One MUST come up with a set of measureable phenomena that combine to create a "hit value", otherwise "hit" will continue to be an undefined sales and/or bragging term, imo.

Dave
 
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