Cue Tip Size And Shape Effects

[dr_dave]

FYI, I just posted a new video that discusses and demonstrates the effects of shaft diameter and tip shape. Some effects are important to be aware of, but many are not as important an many people might think. Check it out:

Contents:
0:00 - Intro
0:14 - Shaft/Tip Size
2:04 - Tip Shape
5:56 - Wrap Up

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!

 

[SEB]

Yet another video that goes completely against any competent player’s perception of what’s actually happening on the table.

I can’t believe you actually play pool. Why wouldn’t you frame these videos for any practical use??? So many of the things you cover are purely theoretical and hold absolutely no water when it comes to a human with a cue in hand.

Tip diameter and tip shape massively effect every single shot. To say none of it matters to keeps the whole topic in a vacuum.

When a player picks up the EXACT same cue with a tip that’s rounded at a dime instead of a quarter…it’s going to play massively different…period.

Also, many of your videos underplay “insignificant” or “inconsequential” differences in your measurements…i got news for ya…in a game of millimeters, they AREN'T insignificant or inconsequential.

 

[slide13]

I don't know, pretty much aligns with my expectations exactly. I've long thought shaft diameter made pretty minimal difference in performance and it's more of a feel and visual thing. I've tried multiple tip diameters and never noticed much difference but found dime visually to seem "too round" for whatever reason, but I could play with it just fine. I like a very flat tip on my break cue for the reasons outlined in the video. Basically, this whole video seems accurate to me and my experience.

 

[boogieman]

Yet another video that goes completely against any competent player’s perception of what’s actually happening on the table.

I can’t believe you actually play pool. Why wouldn’t you frame these videos for any practical use??? So many of the things you cover are purely theoretical and hold absolutely no water when it comes to a human with a cue in hand.

Tip diameter and tip shape massively effect every single shot. To say none of it matters to keeps the whole topic in a vacuum.

When a player picks up the EXACT same cue with a tip that’s rounded at a dime instead of a quarter…it’s going to play massively different…period.

Also, many of your videos underplay “insignificant” or “inconsequential” differences in your measurements…i got news for ya…in a game of millimeters, they AREN'T insignificant or inconsequential.

Tip diameter isn't as big of a deal as you think.

 

[Rocket354]

Great video, Dr. Dave. I recently started playing with a 10.5mm shaft and I've found myself twice doing something I'd never done before: shooting off the rail, the tip "slipped" and I ended up effectively catching the cueball between my shaft and the bed. I figured I must have just done a poor stroke, but I'd never done something like that before and suddenly in the first week with my small shaft I did it twice. I'm wondering if I need a smaller radius tip shape and was just hitting too close to the tip edge.

How's that for practical use, SEB?

 

[Rocket354]

One thing that stood out to me was how big of a difference tip shape makes on the contact point. That explains why some tips, or at least, installations of tips, might feel very different from one another. If I want reliable tip contact points on the cue ball then I really want a well-used tip that's already been pounded into its shape through play and won't be changing much.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

One thing that stood out to me was how big of a difference tip shape makes on the contact point.

Did you miss this diagram (at about 2:00 minutes on the video) where Dave explains that tip shape makes very little difference in contact point? Hard to argue with that visual...

Another fact that's often misunderstood: tip size has no effect.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

Tip diameter and tip shape massively effect every single shot. To say none of it matters to keeps the whole topic in a vacuum.

Did you actually watch the video? The logic is sound and the illustrations are clear. If you or others have any specific disagreements or questions about anything specific in the video, please let me know. And for the record, I do say some of it matters, as summarized at the end of the video.

 

[dr_dave]

Tip diameter isn't as big of a deal as you think.

It is for some people who use closed bridges or who misjudge the tip contact point for different shaft diameters.

 

[dr_dave]

Great video, Dr. Dave.

Thanks.

 

[dr_dave]

Did you miss this diagram (at about 2:00 minutes on the video) where Dave explains that tip shape makes very little difference in contact point? Hard to argue with that visual...

Another fact that's often misunderstood: tip size has no effect.

pj
chgo

View attachment 750966

Thanks again for one of the several illustrations of yours I included in the video. Did you see my little "shout out" at the end of the video?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Thanks again for one of the several illustrations of yours I included in the video. Did you see my little "shout out" at the end of the video?

Haven't watched the whole video yet, but as you know, mis ilustraciones son tus ilustraciones, Doc.

pj
chgo

 

[Rocket354]

Did you miss this diagram (at about 2:00 minutes on the video) where Dave explains that tip shape makes very little difference in contact point? Hard to argue with that visual...

Another fact that's often misunderstood: tip size has no effect.

pj
chgo

View attachment 750966

I was referring to the diagrams at about the 3:15 mark.

 

[dr_dave]

I was referring to the diagrams at about the 3:15 mark.

Here's an important quote from that part of the video:

"... but the differences in tip roundness are very large in this comparison."​

So be aware that the effect shown in that illustration is quite exaggerated as compared to typical ranges of shaft diameters and tip shapes.

 

[SEB]

Sums up all of Dave’s equipment videos:

There’s minute differences in equipment that at the very core scientific theoretical level, don’t matter at all…

You just have to aim completely different with every shaft, tip, tip shape, tip diameter, and stroke perfectly on every shot for the person to actually perceive that they don’t matter at all.

No shit Sherlock. It’s a precision feel game based on muscle memory.

Every little detail in the equipment is going to change how a human shoots and perceives a shot. 90%+ of the information on these equipment videos doesn’t actually help anyone play better pool because his “conclusions” are so reductive.

I guess i just have a love/hate relationship with the good Dr. because I’m glad someone out there is attempting to figure out the behind the scenes stuff with pool but so rarely does his content on equipment lead anywhere productive.

 

[lfigueroa]

I think anyone who has played a bit knows the shape of your tip makes a significant difference.

What I have learned in my time on pool tables is that it's never a case of exactly a dime v exactly a nickel. Most often, tips take on slightly more complex shapes than the simple radius of a coin. No, I have no interest in making a video. I'm simply addressing something many pool players of a particular skill level know, maybe just intuitively.

Some of this stuff you need to take with a lump of salt.

Lou Figueroa

 

[boogieman]

It is for some people who use closed bridges or who misjudge the tip contact point for different shaft diameters.

Misjudging is not the fault of a tip diameter. One can misjudge anything in this game. The standard advice is to practice and pay attention. Once you use a different shaft diameter you have to learn it. A misjudgement isn't the tip's fault, it's the operator.

I guess closed bridges could be a case but to be fair you can rarely have the whole cue as low as shown, on the diagrams anyway, there are rails that the butt is over. You also have the ability to slightly jack a cue up and put a stroke to it, float it. Sure, it might be harder to do, but you can hit it just as low with a larger radius. In all practicality it isn't any kind of hindrance. It might take some getting used to but again, that's any cue, any shaft, really anything in this game.

With a properly chalked cue and a half decent stroke, you really shouldn't miscue even if you're playing on the edge of the tip. I use hard tips so maybe this isn't the case with soft tips but if you follow through the ball and use chalk you don't miscue. I have a 12.5 and it's probably a quarter radius.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, tip roundness diameter really doesn't matter unless we're talking extreme case scenarios. There are preferences sure, but as long as you're somewhat in a normal range they are playable.

 

[maha]

basically says -- remember that thingy about the indian and the arrow.

 

[lfigueroa]

basically says -- remember that thingy about the indian and the arrow.

yeah but, sometimes, it’s the arrow.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Patrick Johnson]

…some people … misjudge the tip contact point for different shaft diameters.

Misjudging is not the fault of a tip diameter.

It can be (slightly) if you judge tip offset by the shaft’s center.

pj
chgo