Cue upright while sighting and getting into stance.

@boogieman

Believe me- a lot of players are frustrated about "finding their stance"-
There is of course no "Text Book Stance". Every human has an individual body- and also every human has a different "feeling for his body".

For example i can tell from expirience, that if you work with people, who used to do stuff like *dancing", "martial arts", or some sports with "eye/hand" coordination, you will see immediatley that they will put their body very easily in the needed position to give themselve the necessary "room" to let a stroke out. Also, because they often understand what matters.

In my opinion it is cruicial to recommend (or tell) someone, that they HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE with their stance. Right at the beginning it s not often the case, that you feel comfortable with the stance, which would be good for you.
But soon YOU WILL FEEL if it s right- and then after time of practicing it, it will be of course more and more comfortable.

And so it is sometimes needed, to get help to get into this *stance* where YOU are able to deliver the cue in a straight line. It is what it is- you want a positive result- and so you have to do, what is needed. People, who has (for what reason ever) not this superb body feeling and a good eye/hand coordination need often help with finding their stance.

have a smooth stroke everyone.
 
Ratta said:
In my opinion it is cruicial to recommend (or tell) someone, that they HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE with their stance. Right at the beginning it s not often the case, that you feel comfortable with the stance, which would be good for you.
But soon YOU WILL FEEL if it s right- and then after time of practicing it, it will be of course more and more comfortable.
Click to expand...
Excellent point. These people have already gotten over the leap of faith aspect to good technique and can orient themselves without undue concern for error. Raw beginners are very difficult to work with in that regard. Everything is unfamiliar and stressful.
 
Ratta said:
... In my opinion it is crucial to recommend (or tell) someone, that they HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE with their stance. Right at the beginning it s not often the case, that you feel comfortable with the stance, which would be good for you.
But soon YOU WILL FEEL if it s right- and then after time of practicing it, it will be of course more and more comfortable.
...
Click to expand...
Many players seem to think it must feel comfortable from the start. They never really give good mechanics/stance/position a try.

I think the best example of this is the bridge. The typical player who has never had instruction makes bad bridges. Their open bridge is wobbly and their closed bridge, if any, is worse. Some can make a good, solid, sharp V within a few minutes and will stick with it. Others have a real problem keeping their thumb against the index finger and a few minutes of trying leaves their hand cramped and sore. If you can't convince them that in the long run they need to guide the front of the stick accurately, they will never get past the original discomfort. They will discard improvement because it is slightly bothersome.

Often you will see the free advice given here by non-instructors to "do what feels right", similar to your "HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE" above before you go on to explain it. I think much better advice is "do what is necessary and right and soon it will feel right."
 
I'm having really good set-up results lately from first planting my back foot then stopping.

Once planted, I can do anything else before proceeding: get a drink, chalk, look around the room, check out the hot babe, anything, AS LONG AS I KEEP MY BACK FOOT IN PLACE.

One thing that really works after planting the back foot is to replay the 'movie of the shot.' That puts one's whole essence back into the shot and then the rest of the setup just naturally falls into place.

It is working for me, fwiw to you,



Jeff Livingston
 
I've only had a chance to play once since starting the thread. I've not really had time to cement or work on anything as the play session was subbing for a 9 ball league. I didn't want to try fiddling with things in a match situation. The only thing I tried was chefjeff's suggestion of the soft shoulder. It worked well for that session, but I'm still building and refining everything.

My main problem is, I knew about pendulum stroke and what a proper stroke should look like. I spent decades playing that way with no real idea about foot placement and stance. Sometimes my stroke was dead perfect, other times it wobbled side to side as I wasn't lined up. The blinders were on and it didn't make sense why it wobbled sometimes and perfect others. A real "duh" moment. The real struggle is, I can just get up and fall into place. I'd say 70-80% of the time it was fine, but 20-30% of the time not being fine is a huge problem. I want to be set up good as close to 100% of the time as humanly possible. The game is difficult enough without sabotaging your chances 20-30% of the time, but I could never figure out what was going on.

The funny thing is, I can stroke from almost any position, because I didn't know jack about having your body lined up. It's made it a real headache to actually get things right. When you can shoot twisted, side armed, etc it's really annoying to try to fix! I honestly wish I had missed every shot when I wasn't lined up correctly as it would have made it way easier to fix years ago.

Thanks again for the advice, this thread has given me a lot of great instruction. I really appreciate it!
 
boogieman said:
I've only had a chance to play once since starting the thread. I've not really had time to cement or work on anything as the play session was subbing for a 9 ball league. I didn't want to try fiddling with things in a match situation. The only thing I tried was chefjeff's suggestion of the soft shoulder. It worked well for that session, but I'm still building and refining everything.

My main problem is, I knew about pendulum stroke and what a proper stroke should look like. I spent decades playing that way with no real idea about foot placement and stance. Sometimes my stroke was dead perfect, other times it wobbled side to side as I wasn't lined up. The blinders were on and it didn't make sense why it wobbled sometimes and perfect others. A real "duh" moment. The real struggle is, I can just get up and fall into place. I'd say 70-80% of the time it was fine, but 20-30% of the time not being fine is a huge problem. I want to be set up good as close to 100% of the time as humanly possible. The game is difficult enough without sabotaging your chances 20-30% of the time, but I could never figure out what was going on.

The funny thing is, I can stroke from almost any position, because I didn't know jack about having your body lined up. It's made it a real headache to actually get things right. When you can shoot twisted, side armed, etc it's really annoying to try to fix! I honestly wish I had missed every shot when I wasn't lined up correctly as it would have made it way easier to fix years ago.

Thanks again for the advice, this thread has given me a lot of great instruction. I really appreciate it!
Click to expand...


Self-Sabotage while you re doin what you love cannot be really a good idea, is it? :-)

Never let someone steal your fun boogieman- and maybe you ll try out to get a lesson from someone, who s worth it- and who clicks with you, too (what is really important!).
All the guys (including me :-) ) who are just trying to give good advices can just type some words without seeing you-
A qualified person who spend some hours with you, and who can SHOW you, what you really look like- and who is able to explain you, WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU should be the key for you.
Hope you ll find that one person :-)

have a smooth stroke- and enjoy the game!
 
boogieman said:
I've only had a chance to play once since starting the thread. I've not really had time to cement or work on anything as the play session was subbing for a 9 ball league. I didn't want to try fiddling with things in a match situation. The only thing I tried was chefjeff's suggestion of the soft shoulder. It worked well for that session, but I'm still building and refining everything.

My main problem is, I knew about pendulum stroke and what a proper stroke should look like. I spent decades playing that way with no real idea about foot placement and stance. Sometimes my stroke was dead perfect, other times it wobbled side to side as I wasn't lined up. The blinders were on and it didn't make sense why it wobbled sometimes and perfect others. A real "duh" moment. The real struggle is, I can just get up and fall into place. I'd say 70-80% of the time it was fine, but 20-30% of the time not being fine is a huge problem. I want to be set up good as close to 100% of the time as humanly possible. The game is difficult enough without sabotaging your chances 20-30% of the time, but I could never figure out what was going on.

The funny thing is, I can stroke from almost any position, because I didn't know jack about having your body lined up. It's made it a real headache to actually get things right. When you can shoot twisted, side armed, etc it's really annoying to try to fix! I honestly wish I had missed every shot when I wasn't lined up correctly as it would have made it way easier to fix years ago.

Thanks again for the advice, this thread has given me a lot of great instruction. I really appreciate it!
Click to expand...
Those of us who are real teachers here have the benefit of experiencing the issues of hundreds and maybe even thousands of players over the years. I can tell you that you're not alone. Your issue is very common. What goes on, on the pool table, happens from the waist-up. So naturally, that would be the area that most people focus on. Even players who are taught stance from early on --- still have to experience for themselves, the difference in what happens above the waist when the stance is off and when it's on.

As hard as it is, you're going through the process the way that you should --- realizing that a good stance is the difference between being an okay player and a player who plays up to their potential. So now you're in the discovery phase. Good. You'll get there. Trust the process.
 
My younger teammates were making fun of me the other night for my latest exercise in how I plant my back foot. I'm discovering that if it's right, everything else has to just fall in place. I think I'm on the right track here, for sure. My Set-up procedure is getting easier and more accurate.

I out shot every one of 'em last year...yes, the old fart...and yet, here I am still trying to improve on my shot.


Jeff Livingston
 
FranCrimi said:
Those of us who are real teachers here have the benefit of experiencing the issues of hundreds and maybe even thousands of players over the years. I can tell you that you're not alone. Your issue is very common. What goes on, on the pool table, happens from the waist-up. So naturally, that would be the area that most people focus on. Even players who are taught stance from early on --- still have to experience for themselves, the difference in what happens above the waist when the stance is off and when it's on.

As hard as it is, you're going through the process the way that you should --- realizing that a good stance is the difference between being an okay player and a player who plays up to their potential. So now you're in the discovery phase. Good. You'll get there. Trust the process.
Click to expand...

Wise as words as can be on this topic :-) Especially to "trust the process" and to stay with it- that s the toughest part for players imo from my expirience.
 
Ratta said:
@boogieman

Believe me- a lot of players are frustrated about "finding their stance"-
There is of course no "Text Book Stance". Every human has an individual body- and also every human has a different "feeling for his body".

For example i can tell from expirience, that if you work with people, who used to do stuff like *dancing", "martial arts", or some sports with "eye/hand" coordination, you will see immediatley that they will put their body very easily in the needed position to give themselve the necessary "room" to let a stroke out. Also, because they often understand what matters.

In my opinion it is cruicial to recommend (or tell) someone, that they HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE with their stance. Right at the beginning it s not often the case, that you feel comfortable with the stance, which would be good for you.
But soon YOU WILL FEEL if it s right- and then after time of practicing it, it will be of course more and more comfortable.

And so it is sometimes needed, to get help to get into this *stance* where YOU are able to deliver the cue in a straight line. It is what it is- you want a positive result- and so you have to do, what is needed. People, who has (for what reason ever) not this superb body feeling and a good eye/hand coordination need often help with finding their stance.

have a smooth stroke everyone.
Click to expand...
I just made a student uncomfortable. His Mike Sigel-like stretched stance meant his leg was moving during the stroke. He said the new stance to firm his body will take a while--but he was already a great, intuitive golfer and will adjust.

It's more than comfortable, it's comfortable (no back or neck strain) and functional, of course.

On another note, I have a one-minute putting lesson yesterday and doubled the player's putting ability. :)
 
Bob Jewett said:
Many players seem to think it must feel comfortable from the start. They never really give good mechanics/stance/position a try.

I think the best example of this is the bridge. The typical player who has never had instruction makes bad bridges. Their open bridge is wobbly and their closed bridge, if any, is worse. Some can make a good, solid, sharp V within a few minutes and will stick with it. Others have a real problem keeping their thumb against the index finger and a few minutes of trying leaves their hand cramped and sore. If you can't convince them that in the long run they need to guide the front of the stick accurately, they will never get past the original discomfort. They will discard improvement because it is slightly bothersome.

Often you will see the free advice given here by non-instructors to "do what feels right", similar to your "HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE" above before you go on to explain it. I think much better advice is "do what is necessary and right and soon it will feel right."
Click to expand...
Exactly- someone has to learn "being comfortable being uncomfortable!". To say it with the words of the great Ken Ravizza :-) R.i.P. Ken.
 
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