Cuemaking 101

[Mystick Cue Fan]

Personally have no problem with cuemakers that do this. You have taken material and customized it at this point. Making a custom sneaky.



Yes, he's customized it by changing the name. Thats a big difference that using a oversized blank, turning it down to the dia that you like, adding one of your shafts, adding collars, changing out the ferrule and tip, adding rings and a new buttcap. Changing the name is dishonest, and probably against the law in some states.

How about all states?

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

In reply to those who see no difference in what he does and someone who converts a bar cue - I guess it's a matter of degree. But a pretty extreme degree...

I myself buy oversize SP blanks from another source. But I make my own shafts, buttcaps, trim rings and ferrules. I machine the butt & the shaft to the size & taper I want. I install the joint, ferrule, tip, buttcap, trim rings, etc. Basically, I buy rough components in bulk, then machine & assemble everything to arrive at a finished product.

I didn't expect this thread to grow like it did. I just get frustrated when his customers come to me to fix his stuff & expect ME to guarantee everything.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but it's late (or early...I don't even know at this point) and I got off on a rant. I debated just deleting this after I got it off my chest but I'm tired of biting my tongue. I'll probably hear about it locally but the forum members can rest assured that this person is unknown to them.

Hi Bob:

I just want to say that you build a beautiful cue and I agree with you. We all get frustrated from time to time because of the "Wood Whackers" we encounter. You must remember that the work these guys do speaks much louder than what they say. They usually go away in short time so don't waste your time thinking about what they do - just continue to do the excellent work you do.

Again, I think you build a fine cue.

Good Cuemaking,

 

[cubswin]

How about all states?

Wouldn't doubt it...sounds like fraud to me. Probably would depend on what gets changed. If it is just sanding off the logo, adding your name, and refinish then I'd guess that would qualify as fraud everywhere.

 

[tbone1213]

No. You've never heard of him. He's a local tip repairman that is branching out, looking for another way to make a fast buck. He's a player on one of the area's stronger teams & for some reason, that gives him credibility as a "cuemaker" to some of the beginners around here.

In reply to those who see no difference in what he does and someone who converts a bar cue - I guess it's a matter of degree. But a pretty extreme degree...

I myself buy oversize SP blanks from another source. But I make my own shafts, buttcaps, trim rings and ferrules. I machine the butt & the shaft to the size & taper I want. I install the joint, ferrule, tip, buttcap, trim rings, etc. Basically, I buy rough components in bulk, then machine & assemble everything to arrive at a finished product.

He takes a finished product & removes identifying features. He signs it and that's it. The most I've seen him do, as far as modifying the cue in any way, is to install a contrasting wooden trim ring above a new buttcap & he has attempted to install a Uni-Loc QR joint or two. From what I've heard, they haven't worked out too well. One cue broke at the joint within 2 weeks (a $340 SP) and the customer was told "too bad".

I didn't expect this thread to grow like it did. I just get frustrated when his customers come to me to fix his stuff & expect ME to guarantee everything. They can't take it back to him because he is so limited in what he can do. And they learn (too late) that his fixes are often worse than the original problem.

Case in point: he convinced the owner of a very nice 20 yr old Joss West cue that both shafts needed the ivory ferrules replaced even though one of the shafts was barely used. I don't know if it was really necessary and neither did the cue's owner but the "repairman" told him he would fix him up. Well, the JW tenons were threaded 5/16-14 - not 5/16-18 - but this guy didn't know the difference so he installed Mueller's cheapest threaded ferrule on both shafts, stripping the threads on the tenon in the process. No problem, plenty of epoxy should fix that, right? The trouble was, after a week or so, the ferrule on his favorite shaft started coming loose several times during a session. Mr Repairman suggested just holding the cue upright, tip end down, and dropping it several times against the floor. This would drive the ferrule back up flush against the shoulder. Problem solved!

Anyway, sorry for the long post but it's late (or early...I don't even know at this point) and I got off on a rant. I debated just deleting this after I got it off my chest but I'm tired of biting my tongue. I'll probably hear about it locally but the forum members can rest assured that this person is unknown to them.

PS to Bill Stroud: I think it was one of your cues to which I referred. It was either yours or Tim Scruggs. I apologize if I got it wrong.

Hi Bob,
some of "us" have heard of him and know that he is NOT a Cue builder or even "repairman" as far as that goes.
The things that I have seen from his "shop" just make me shake my head and wonder how anyone could have the nuts to call himself a cue-maker.

 

[mantis99]

I think that if you even have to ask if this is wrong, your moral compass needs some fine tuning. This would definately be considered illegal also.

 

[jazznpool]

About 4 years ago I "won" a sneaky pete with a "weight bolt" from one of the sellers whos posts here on eBay. I was curious and I think it cost me $38.00. It was a Chinese cue. The guy signed it with a Sharpie between the points (I wiped it off completely in one swipe with lacquer thinner) and had posted a picture of the "signed sneaky pete with weight bolt" as to indicate he made it. What really got me was when the cue arrived, the "weight bolt" had fallen out of the cue. Not only were the threads badly stripped or mis-tapped, he bored the hole the width of the bumper about 2-1/2-3" deep in the rear of the cue for no apparent reason! I would only purchase something from the guy again if there was no chance the product could possibly be screwed up and I could not obtain it elsewhere. I have no intention of outing anyone here--brought it up for entertainment purposes only.

Martin

(not so) hypothetical situation: someone is buying Players Sneaky Petes for $39-$59 each, replacing or sanding the buttcap (to get rid of Players logo), applying his pencilled signature between the points & clearing over the signature, then selling them for $300 and up as custom made SPs.

Most would find this practice highly unethical but ethics aside, is this the mark of a clever entrepreneur? Or are there less than legal aspects to this practice?

Just checking my moral compass.

 

[bigpocket]

Was Jeff Duke wasnt it Bob????? Just kidding.
Chuck

LOL Low blow. Now that sounds like Aaron painer to me That guy do any thing to make a buck. I remember him asking my budie to make him some BOb frey butt caps.

 

[robertno1pool]

Cuemaking ??

Hey Bob.

If I buy a $59.00 cue.
Next I ship it to you for "X1" dollars.
I ask you to install a new butt cap $30 +.
I ask you to refinish the cue $100 +.
You ship it back to me for "X2" dollars.

What would you guess I have invested in this cue (if you agree to do the repair work)?

If shipping is $25.00 each way, then I would have $239.00 invested in the cue.

Correct?

Maybe I would pay more than $239.00 for not having to wait for this cue to be finished.

Unfortunately, the pricing for cues is too low unless you reach the rock star status. (I did not jump into the custom cues are priced too high thread - but anyone buying cheap cues is entitled to their opinion. Its their money.) Ebay and inexpensive foreign cues are only helping to hold the market down. Most cue makers fill in doing repairs, replacing tips, adding a good shaft, etc. to help pay the bills.

I do not like the senario you first proposed. It is unethical at some minimal level to add your signature like you made a cue.

The scope in the work above for $239.00 well exceeds the senario that you first have laid out.

But when is the work on a titlist conversion or present-day house cue conversion detailed enough to the point that a cuemaker can add their name? Tough question. Excellent post.

I can only suggest you keep up the good work, educate people about the art in your work, the economics of good cue building, and hold your head up high! If I could build a cue as nice as your cues, I would have a smile so wide the ends of my mouth would be touching on the other side of my head.