Cues - how much is too much?

[Tramp Steamer]

So now your cue, a sample of one, is enough for you to say "Almost all" ???? I guess you are more patriotic than realistic ... no suprise.

Dave <--- Einstein

Aren't you getting a little picky with this stuff. Not all of my cue is made from American wood, but enough of it is to allow me to call it an American cue. What the hell is it with you people. You snipe at every little nuance, misstep, or what have you, for reasons I can't begin to understand. If what you read doesn't suit you, just let it slide.

 

[DaveK]

Aren't you getting a little picky with this stuff. Not all of my cue is made from American wood, but enough of it is to allow me to call it an American cue. What the hell is it with you people. You snipe at every little nuance, misstep, or what have you, for reasons I can't begin to understand. If what you read doesn't suit you, just let it slide.

Sure, I could let it slide, but I tend to call BS when I see BS.

Dave <-- you people, no longer Einstein

 

[manwon]

I thought maybe I had missunderstood what you said, but I'm not so sure. When you say there is a major difference between cue makers, especially when one builds his own parts and the other doesn't, I assume you mean the former is a much better cuemaker than the latter.
My refference to Balabushka was that he is arguably one of the most highly regarded cuemakers of all time, but he himself used parts made by other people. Specifically his prongs, which came from Szamboti, Spain, and others.

During that time it was not a deal killer if a cue maker used parts to build his cue. But, today with all the equipment, and material available it detracts a great deal from a cue makers reputation and the price their cues sell for. Today at least for medium to high end cues if it was discovered that said cue maker was building / just assembling parts their creditability would suffer a great deal and the price of their cues would fall.

The old days are gone, today when spend big dollars they expect the cue maker to really build the cue and most of it's part, somethings must be purchased, such as, pins, bumpers, and Stainless Steel joints along with some other items simply because most do not have the ability to make their own.

However, there are a few cue makers today who even make most of these parts, but time the and cost to do so isn't always worth it in the long run.

I know a little bit about cues and cue makers, and George Balabushka and some others are the exception to the rule. There is really no way to compare them because of the innovations and designs in building that they made, many of which are still being used today.

I hope my thoughts are more clear and understandable, have a great day.

 

[inside_english]

I haven't owned a cue worth more than $300, and I was curious about what the general consensus was in regards to costs.

Specifically, at what point does the cost of a cue exceed performance, engineering, and playability, and just become cost for ornamentation, styling, and design?

In my opinion, it is around $700. That is a broad guesstimate. Hopefully this thread will spark discussion among players only, not cuemakers, who are generally biased and will insist that a larger percentage of cost is practical.

What do you think?

Check out an older thread on the same topic:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=103160

 

[Tramp Steamer]

During that time it was not a deal killer if a cue maker used parts to build his cue. But, today with all the equipment, and material available it detracts a great deal from a cue makers reputation and the price their cues sell for. Today at least for medium to high end cues if it was discovered that said cue maker was building / just assembling parts their creditability would suffer a great deal and the price of their cues would fall.

The old days are gone, today when spend big dollars they expect the cue maker to really build the cue and most of it's part, somethings must be purchased, such as, pins, bumpers, and Stainless Steel joints along with some other items simply because most do not have the ability to make their own.

However, there are a few cue makers today who even make most of these parts, but time the and cost to do so isn't always worth it in the long run.

I know little bit about cues and cue makers, and the reason George Balabushka and some others are the exception to the rule. There is really no way to compare them because of the innovations and designs in building that they made, many of which are still being used today.

I hope my thoughts are more clear and understandable, have a great day.

I do agree with the expectations of today's consumer, yes, and just for the record I to was a cuemaker at one time. Thanks.

 

[AchtBall]

My cue is made of good American wood. I haven't a clue as to what your cue is made of.[/QUOTe

The majority of exotic wood that goes into cues is not wood that came from America.

 

[AchtBall]

I am getting ready to order a Diveney fancy sneakey pete for 350 dollars and I am sure it will hit as good if not better than some of the more expensive cues. All the fancy inlays and ivory will not make a cue hit better.

 

[fishcake]

for me i would choose custom design cue with a price range of 3k below.
playability+good design and craftmanship:thumbup:
but above 3k,i think thats too much for me,for sure my wife gonna beat me with that expensive cue!:embarrassed2:

 

[LAlouie]

I haven't owned a cue worth more than $300, and I was curious about what the general consensus was in regards to costs.

Specifically, at what point does the cost of a cue exceed performance, engineering, and playability, and just become cost for ornamentation, styling, and design?

In my opinion, it is around $700. That is a broad guesstimate. Hopefully this thread will spark discussion among players only, not cuemakers, who are generally biased and will insist that a larger percentage of cost is practical.

What do you think?

...........1.5k.............

I may get taken to task on this, but in my uninformed opinion, cuemakers will save their best material for their high end cues, and no cuemaker, I am guessing, has 100% great shaftwood etc etc. This is no different than when you go out and order custom-made anything. But by all rights, a basic plain jane should be just as good as a high end cue, but if say, a cuemaker has shaftwoods rated good, better, and best, he's going to accommodate the client who pays the most.

 

[broken]

Pool is all about secrecy

I haven't owned a cue worth more than $300, and I was curious about what the general consensus was in regards to costs.

Specifically, at what point does the cost of a cue exceed performance, engineering, and playability, and just become cost for ornamentation, styling, and design?

In my opinion, it is around $700. That is a broad guesstimate. Hopefully this thread will spark discussion among players only, not cuemakers, who are generally biased and will insist that a larger percentage of cost is practical.

What do you think?

The real answer is that no one knows. But they all want to give you an answer that suits them.

This question gets asked all the time when it comes to pool equipment. Chalk, Cues, Racks, pool tables...

And the answer always involves some old time story of some old timer grabbing a broom stick from the barkeep, cutting a tip out of his leather shoes, and then running lights out in a game of straight pool to 400 on a 5x10 foot table against some fancy pants pro from the city with a big dollar cue. Probably threw a nickel to the azb'er telling the story, who undoubtedly plays with a SW that they bought in the 80's for 40 bucks from some other hustler down on his luck.

"it's the Indian, not the arrow"

Never mind the fact that some Indians put poison on the tips of their arrows. Some arrow heads were larger depending on the kind of prey. Sometimes it's the arrow and not the Indian. Some arrows made it easier for the Indian to keep eating.

You don't play russian billiards with a snooker cue....

But when you think about it,

The tip has to matter.
The ferrule has to matter
The material of the shaft has to matter.
The taper, the core construction - they have to matter
The joint has to matter.
The construction of the bottom half of the cue has to matter as well.
Maybe the inlays or splices take away from the long term durability of the cue.
Maybe it's the age or moisture.
Could it be the veneers

Some of it affects the hit/feel of the cue.
Some of it affects the deflection.

This is straight up physics, there has to be some kind of an effect.

And all of that is *independent* of how well you play personally. Of course your stroke matters. Of course your eyes matter. Nobody thinks that it does not.

We all know that you can't buy your way into making balls. That's a given.

But after you get past that warning, is it possible to have an honest discussion about cue performance?

I don't know.

The cue sellers and cue makers can only be trusted to an extent. They have some skin in the game.

There is no independent media in pool, because they all depend on the equipment makers and sellers for support.

And it's not like you could actually answer the question and expect pool players to actually pay for the tests.

so yeah, there's a performance difference between a 100 cue and a 500 cue and 7,000 cue, but pool players will never ever know what that difference is.

 

[Hidy Ho]

But, I have seen FIRST HAND, someone in my area in SoCal (no names), who buys THOUSANDS worth of cues, and his game, stroke, and ability has not exceeded my own, and I've only spent about $600 in the past 4 years on cues.

Unless that someone is someone who likes to show-off or brag about his cues, I'd say so what? If you are happy with what you play with and that person is happy with what he plays with, then let's all be happy.

I think most people who buy high-end cues realize that it's not going to improve their stroke/game. Some fully recognize it's a vain hobby. Most people with high end cues around my 'hood, don't go around showing off and brag about cues. Of course, there are some fools that need to have have their toys justified by others.

Regarding solid custom cues, I think the magic number is below 1K. I think good solid nose cue cue (aka plain jane) by a cue maker can truly represent the cue maker's work. I'm not sold on sneaky pete's being a true representation of a cue maker's work since it tends to be rear-weighted and I think it's as much work to change the weight distribution on these as building a plain jane cue.

 

[C.Milian]

Some cues are worth the price

I played with a schon valued at 750$ for about 4 years. The shaft had quite a few miles on it. It became a better hitting cue through the years. I had to sell it. Now that I know what makes a cue hit good, I would have bought a new shaft to sell with the butt.

I have a custom now worth the same price and it hits great, but there are cues that cost more, that are worth every penny. From what I learned, what makes a cue hit good is:

1) Type of wood and age

2) Frame

And a bunch of others things.

I've been told that a good cuemaker will go through an entire box to find a good tip for you. There is a process to find bad tips, its just one of the marks of a good cuesmith. This can be quite expensive but worth the price if you are competitive and value long term consistency.

That's just tip work. Some people don't even know what direction you're suppose to go when shaping a tip. But the real players do, like Mr west. He was a long time player turned cuemaker, a maker like him will know exactly what goes with what and how. His wood will be true, and work will be meticulous and clean.

If you take a West, Tad, Palmer and hit with all three you will notice similarities, mainly due to its detailed construction. If built properly, it should feel and hit better than anything you have ever hit with under 1000$. I will pay more for any of the mentioned makes for their most basic cue.

 

[SCCues]

This subject has some very different views from pool players. Some players could care less what a cue cost or looks like while others are into eye popping looks and appeal. I've owned quite a few cues in my life and I bought and sold a lot of them as a hobby looking for a magical cue that would improve my game. I haven't found that magical cue yet and I know some cues feel better than others, but most of them pocket balls pretty well.

I have a $600 dollar cue and a $4500 cue and they both play well, but I feel more comfortable playing with the $600 cue. I rarely play with the more expensive cue even though I like the way it plays and looks. I've found that I worry more about getting a scratch or dent on the higher priced cue much more than I do about the $600 cue.

I like to switch cues when I get into a slump hoping the different cue will help and it's just a mental thing with me.

James

 

[manwon]

I am getting ready to order a Diveney fancy sneakey pete for 350 dollars and I am sure it will hit as good if not better than some of the more expensive cues. All the fancy inlays and ivory will not make a cue hit better.

I agree making a cue fancy really has no effect on playability of any cue. In addition it is most likely that your cue is being built form an ordered blank, based upon the price your paying. However, this doesn't matter at all for cues in that price range, I would suspect that you main concern is how the cue play which is most important at least in my opinion and that will come from how the cue is built not were the blank came from.

JIMO

 

[C.Milian]

so yeah, there's a performance difference between a 100 cue and a 500 cue and 7,000 cue, but pool players will never ever know what that difference is.

There is a big difference. You can't get good wood for $100. It will warp after a while...your $100 investment will now be worthless. Bad wood will feel like a metal pipe in your hands.

Grabbing a cue off the rack and playing with it like its a wand is very hard to do. Guys that do that play the rock different than how they would play if they have their own cue.

I believe even the inlays do something to help the aerodynamics of the cue. I'm just guessing, but if the inlay material weighs less than wood, it could be used to help balance things out.

 

[BKB]

Interesting how this thread is going "patriotic," while it should have no bearing on the topic...

I own some expensive cues, but I would never play with anything over $2,000, so I do not know if playability is better when the number is higher. The reason is simple, -- I do not want to worry about dinging the cue, which would distract me from the game. After all, concentration is 90% of the game (if not more).

 

[Donny Lutz]

I made $5,000 in 1968 playing with a Valley cue off the wall at Dick & Ann's Bar. My best years were playing with a 1977 Meucci Original Larry Hubbart and a 1988 Meucci Sneaky. I love all quality SPs: Meucci, Huebler, Joss, Schon, Scruggs, Frey, Predator and Pechauer. I love the feel of wood-to-wood and plastic and phenolic joints. My current player is a 1987 Joss with original Predator 314, which was a gift.

 

[phread59]

Not to throw any monkeys into the wrench. But I would put the figure at $1000 for a custom and $400 for a production cue. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Mark Shuman

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

The only obvious answer to the OP is what you can afford or what the wife will allow.

Very hard to find someone that buys an expensive custom cue that thinks they will play any better. But they are expensive, functional works of art.

No different than buying a car with hubcaps, no pinstripes, and basic paint job.

But you can spend more for chrome wheels, custom pinstriping and metallic paint,,ain't gonna make you go any faster, but it's gonna look nicer.. and some folks would never ever in a million years pay for that "extra" stuff, but if we all liked the same thing it would be pretty boring around these parts......

And it's win/win, so folks like nice toys and cuemakers like nice paychecks, and thus nobody loses, and hopefully, the cue is taken car of and appreciates in 5 years, and you can trade up to something else if you desire.

I"m not sure why it bothers some folks that others spend thousands on a cue. Heck, we spend thousands on cars, cigars, baseball card collection, fine wines, vintage porn (so I have heard), old coins, etc. etc.

If you like a $50 cue... cool, if you like a production cue, cool, and if you like custom, that is cool too.