Cultural differences between Europe and USA...

[midnightpulp]

regarding cue sports?

I'd like to ask our European neighbors and any "Yanks" in the know why cue sports are very popular over there while suffering for even the smallest recognition here. For instance, SVB is having a great year, would make a great story, but ESPiN and other similar outlets have done nothing to profile a talent who may wind up being the Tiger Woods of his sport.

Cue sports used to mean something in this country. In his day, Ralph Greenleaf had a celebrity status similar to that of Babe Ruth. Just thirty years ago, the Mosconi/Fats challenge was the second highest rated sports program of the year. Now, a waitress (no offense to that profression) at the Outback can do better financially than a ranking pro.

America has a fickle attention span and ratings for major sports have been falling and falling. The only sport that really draws mass attention is football, which ironically, as I've read, used to be a fringe sport. In the 50s, Bowling had better TV ratings than Pro Football. Now this country can't get enough of it.

But in Europe, this is not the case. I asked an English friend of mine about the popularty of snooker, and he said "It's like the Superbowl."

Does the climate have anything to do with it? Europe tends to be consisently colder year around so it stands to reason they'd spend more time indoors and with that, comes more time playing pool, snooker, etc...

RA Dyer talks about the demise of the "Bachelor Culture." Affluent, post-war America gave rise to the suburbs, people got married at younger ages, and men stayed home. In another thread, someone talked of how Europe has a more active pub culture among the working class. Not so much the case anymore in the US.

I never bought the excuse that the hustling, seedy image of pool brought about its cultural downfall. This is the kind of thing Americans love: Danger, anti-heroes, risk. The "Pool Hustler" still remains an American cultural archetype. An outlaw, unrestricted by the confines of the 9 to 5 lifestyle, that many people identify with and vicariously live through, be it film, literature, the anecdotes we read every day on here, or giving a Banger the orange crush and taking a twenty off him.

I think it may have to do with the fact that Europe holds on to tradition longer, which is understandable since most of it is much, much older than our young country. As a culture, we move from one thing to another so fast, no trend is safe.

What say you?

 

[Scaramouche]

The clash of the approaches of Americans and Europeans to billiards

Watching the World 9-Ball, commentator Rico Diks mentioned:

That Europeans look upon billiards as their sport and are willing to get coaching, and concentrate on tournaments not gambling, just the opposite to the American approach.

That the Mosconi European team was worked by their coach, doing shooting drills etc. to get them fit for the brawl with Earl and his mob. He didn't mention what preparation (if any) Earl and his mob had before crossing the pond.

 

[worriedbeef]

I asked an English friend of mine about the popularty of snooker, and he said "It's like the Superbowl."

there are definitely huge differences between the cultures, but that is definitely not the case. How popular snooker is in england is hard to tell because it's shown on the BBC where ratings are slightly less important. If it was a commercial channel if it didn't do well it'd be axed instantly simple as. But the BBC has supported the game for many years now and tbh i think that's the key issue. without the BBC snooker would have been down in the dumps a long time ago. unfortunately pool hasn't had something like the BBC. a lot of people forget up until about six months to a year ago there were crisis talks about snooker and it's problems - needing to spice the game up, introduce more events, blah blah blah. it's only recently died down a bit. Snooker's still a minority sport really. Everybody knows ronnie o'sullivan and stephen hendry and john virgo and that's about it. don't even mention pool - it might as well not exist in england. when people do see a table it's dismissed as an easy game - "look at the size of the pockets! Snooker is the proper cue sport" American pool will NEVER thrive in england because of snooker snobs and general ignorance to the game. at least i can't foresee it in my lifetime.

America has a fickle attention span

Not just an American problem mate.


Just a few thoughts - albeit pessimistic ones.

 

[RunoutalloverU]

something tells me that this issue is so complex with so many facets that you would have to be an expert in history regarding, US history, the history of England, and the history of cue sports, and certain sociological and anthropological aspects of this as well. And then you would have certain disagreements even with experts why certain sports in general do better in certain areas than others. And then you could try to see where cue sports fit into that overall broad category. You would also have to look at, as has been mentioned, what other sports made it big when they were once not so. And look at sports that have been around a while and never made it big. It would take a book or two to begin to understand all of this, and then we could just start to have informed opinions about this topic....any takers?

 

[whitey2]

you are not alone

[...]
I never bought the excuse that the hustling, seedy image of pool brought about its cultural downfall. This is the kind of thing Americans love: Danger, anti-heroes, risk. The "Pool Hustler" still remains an American cultural archetype. An outlaw, unrestricted by the confines of the 9 to 5 lifestyle, that many people identify with and vicariously live through, be it film, literature, the anecdotes we read every day on here, or giving a Banger the orange crush and taking a twenty off him.
[...]

You are not alone in your thinking... And... (TO BE CONTINUED)

 

[midnightpulp]

don't even mention pool - it might as well not exist in england. when people do see a table it's dismissed as an easy game - "look at the size of the pockets! Snooker is the proper cue sport"

Is this when you tell them you'll give them the seven and the breaks

Seriously though, have you ever played a snooker snob who thought pool was easy and crushed him?

 

[chilli66]

Is this when you tell them you'll give them the seven and the breaks

Seriously though, have you ever played a snooker snob who thought pool was easy and crushed him?

Yes, many times.

Now, I used to play snooker in England & love the game. But I've always considered myself a pool player first & foremost. I did use to think that snooker was the harder game to play (like most Brits.) Nowadays I won't say which is the tougher game, I'm just better at pool than I ever was at snooker. I guess it's just what I grew up playing.

One thing I have said here before & will stand by. In the UK (and this is just my opinion) most people look down on pool as being an easier game than snooker because they can make a few balls on a pool table, while they will struggle to do the same on a snooker table. So, they think pool is an easier game to play, and don't give credit to good pool players.

They just don't appreciate the intricacies involved in making a good runout, or kicking off however many rails to make a shot. The one thing I have always said & will stand by is that you see a lot more imaginative shots in pool than you will in snooker (at least, that's how I play!)

As for snooker being like the superbowl, no way. Try the FA Cup. I do remember watching the Davis-Taylor World Final in 1985 though, that was probably the most-watched game in history. Finished sometime after midnight on a Sunday night & it seemed like everyone was watching!

 

[TheBook]

Europeans also have more interest in Football (Soccer), darts, pigeon racing, cricket, Formula One racing, and I am sure there is a whole lot more.

 

[worriedbeef]

Yes, many times.

Now, I used to play snooker in England & love the game. But I've always considered myself a pool player first & foremost. I did use to think that snooker was the harder game to play (like most Brits.) Nowadays I won't say which is the tougher game, I'm just better at pool than I ever was at snooker. I guess it's just what I grew up playing.

One thing I have said here before & will stand by. In the UK (and this is just my opinion) most people look down on pool as being an easier game than snooker because they can make a few balls on a pool table, while they will struggle to do the same on a snooker table. So, they think pool is an easier game to play, and don't give credit to good pool players.

They just don't appreciate the intricacies involved in making a good runout, or kicking off however many rails to make a shot. The one thing I have always said & will stand by is that you see a lot more imaginative shots in pool than you will in snooker (at least, that's how I play!)

As for snooker being like the superbowl, no way. Try the FA Cup. I do remember watching the Davis-Taylor World Final in 1985 though, that was probably the most-watched game in history. Finished sometime after midnight on a Sunday night & it seemed like everyone was watching!

yeah this is pretty much right on the money.

Don't get me wrong i love snooker i think it's a great game. I've watched hundreds of hours of it and i've got it to thank for introducing me to cue sports. It's just disheartening when even a lot of the pool players I've met prefer snooker and somewhat dismiss pool! like chilli66 said - people can make a few balls on a pool table relatively easily so they think the game's easy.

By the way i don't want anybody getting the wrong idea when i said 'snooker snobs'. If people prefer one game to the other that's fine i suppose. but many wouldn't even give it a chance and don't know how to play the game yet are passionate in their opinion that it's a crap game. General ignorance is the problem. People are passionate and stubborn in their dislike of something sometimes yet they don't know anything about it! Hell it reminds me of the political situation. You ask your average bum on the street who knows absolutely nothing about world/current affairs what they think about george bush, and you'd think he broke into their house on christmas morning and pissed on their christmas presents such is their hatred of the man! It's just popular opinion that spreads like wildfire.

It's about three/four years down the line since i started playing pool regularly and seriously. Yet to most of my family I still play snooker with my snooker cues! "They're POOL cues dad..." etc etc

The above points are also why I've come to the conclusion that maybe ten ball is the way forward. Pool does look like a joke to the uninformed sometimes when in the world championships a player soft breaks and makes three balls and has to run 6 open balls to win a rack.

 

[mjantti]

Europeans want to see racing cars go around tracks which have curves to both left and right

I've seen a few high stakes matches in Europe and I see very little woofing or hardly any at all. To me it seems that European pool players just go out and do their stuff on the table, no trash talk required.

Probably the major difference is in hustling. You can't really find that in the European pool scene.

 

[Franky]

T...Europeans look upon billiards as their sport and are willing to get coaching, and concentrate on tournaments not gambling, just the opposite to the American approach. ...

I agree with this completely. I saw dedicated coaches, very young kids actively playing, many female players, and a FANTASTIC league setup over there. The comments about the lack of the hustling attitude are also fairly accurate from my experience.

I certainly liked the people I met over there.

 

[Nekdo]

Pool is not as big in europe as it seems.ok people are playing at the evening, drinking beer etc...but this is not serious.Pool on tv in europe?i don`t see it anywhere.There was something on DSF(german channel) about wpc and mosconi last year.Pool schools?not in my country.Probably things in Germany are a lot better.I think people gamble a lot less and behave a lot better.If earl is an example of an american pool player you have a problem.And the shouting of your commentators are anoying to me also.Here is pool taken a bit more serious i think.In USA everything is a show.Nba is not basketball, but running like crazy up and down, football is pussy version of rugby and is more interesting to watch because of the protection they use,even the president elections seems redicilous.who cares what they think.the winner is the one who makes a bigger show out of everything.i hope you got the ideas what I`m trying to say.Pool is not a sport, which can be spectatular.Table, player, 15 balls,cue...no fighting,running...
I think snooker in GB is very proffesional.They have a Academy in Sheffield, bbc and eurosport covers all the ranking events,everything seems very classy.And the brits like it.They find it interesting.The rest of europe has nothing to do with snooker.Just look at the players and where tgey come from.England,ireland,wales,n.ireland,scotland and thats it.Ok tony drago is from malta, which is an island and has almost nothing with europe.

 

[chilli66]

yeah this is pretty much right on the money.

Don't get me wrong i love snooker i think it's a great game. I've watched hundreds of hours of it and i've got it to thank for introducing me to cue sports. It's just disheartening when even a lot of the pool players I've met prefer snooker and somewhat dismiss pool! like chilli66 said - people can make a few balls on a pool table relatively easily so they think the game's easy.

By the way i don't want anybody getting the wrong idea when i said 'snooker snobs'. If people prefer one game to the other that's fine i suppose. but many wouldn't even give it a chance and don't know how to play the game yet are passionate in their opinion that it's a crap game. General ignorance is the problem. People are passionate and stubborn in their dislike of something sometimes yet they don't know anything about it! Hell it reminds me of the political situation. You ask your average bum on the street who knows absolutely nothing about world/current affairs what they think about george bush, and you'd think he broke into their house on christmas morning and pissed on their christmas presents such is their hatred of the man! It's just popular opinion that spreads like wildfire.

It's about three/four years down the line since i started playing pool regularly and seriously. Yet to most of my family I still play snooker with my snooker cues! "They're POOL cues dad..." etc etc

The above points are also why I've come to the conclusion that maybe ten ball is the way forward. Pool does look like a joke to the uninformed sometimes when in the world championships a player soft breaks and makes three balls and has to run 6 open balls to win a rack.

Bloody hell! A Brummie talking sense! Have things changed so much since I left England? Just kidding mate, you're bang on there. I used to live down the M5 in Tewkesbury, it's good to hear from a (former) neighbour!