Sounds like there were some problems with the AZ system. But for the sake of argument I’ll concede that the old AZ system was more accurate than FargoRate. But your own description of it shows that it isn’t replicable or transferable. How did it rank the CA players? How did it rank the NM players? Let’s just confine it to the four corners states. How did the committee have the SLC players and the CO guys? Obviously it didn’t and couldn’t. The FargoRate system is much better overall and it has supplanted other local systems.
Augusta National apparently has its own handicapping system for members. It might work great for the $2 Nassau between members. But the USGA system works for everybody at all clubs and courses.
No matter how good a local system is, it is just that- local.
There are unknown thousands who can play including the only play good enough to win strata. No way Fargo can find them much less quantify the ethic.It all depends on what you compete for, Fargo status, $$$, reputation or ???
Open play is the only system that is tamper proof. It is play your best, or be elimated.
Today in Arizona the better players, face the same discrimination.
Most Tournments are for the recreational players.
As Fargo increases, so do opportunities to compete diminish.
hate to give iusedtobe any credit(ha!!!) but i do like his idea of having random FR caps. Say a spot has monthly/weekly tourn's, have the cap be chosen at random instead of always going with the same FR caps. no cap is the best but as you said could run into time/scheduling issues.you can have handicap tournaments that aren't capped. problem is if races become longer for the high fargo participants, but that's a time constraint issue. i too think capping is detrimental
If you don't know the level of the players your friend played, then it's not possible to say anything. I find the Fargo ratings, for honest players, to be pretty equal across state lines.Hi Bob,
I completely agree with your "island" theory. I am unsure of the players in Montana's ratings. I just checked my friends rating, and he is currently a 649 with a robustness of 1172, this is not really important, as this was more of topic I was curious to get others perspective on. I always value your opinion, you have more knowledge in pool than I could ever imagine and very glad you chimed in. Thank you
A 650 traveling anywhere will pretty much crush all the competition. It will take each city’s best players to beat him.
So who did he crush? Local players in a weekly $20 tournament?
Or did he play $1000 sets and the houseman called the best guy in the city to play him?
Your question is missing the most important information.
where?john steinbeck explains fargo ND very well
texas is a pretty big state
ive played a few locals in the low 700s
you never get to see a ball
and ive played 700s from across the state where i saw the table several times in a single rack
Spot on!I am not even a 600, and when I visit random pool halls, on any random night I am almost always of the top 4 or even top 2 guys there even with a full house of a league going. I was in Jacksonville a month or so ago, went to a new pool hall for me there to hang out with someone I met through Reddit, there were only 2 people in the room with a higher rating than me, and from watching them, I would have an even match with them. But in another pool hall in the same city in their weekly tournament, I was surrounded by 600-700 rated players and was lucky to go 2-2 in the place. Who you play makes a big difference in how one thinks the area is. A 650 going somewhere will have an easy time beating most players in the area if I can do it as a 562.
Oh and there are only 10 players rated over 640 in the entire state of Montana
I know a crafty old TW coach (690+) that I have seen regularly take money from 800s when they come to town for competitions (China Open, yuan8 Open, Chinese table stuff). In fact, I have not seen him lose a match for money in the two years I've been playing. One of the best safety players I have ever seen in person. Granted his rating is probably based on the fact he is playing for coins and not trophies.Again, this is a question about location and strengths being evenly rated using the Fargo system, not who or how good any specific player is....
Its been this way before FargoRate, before Arizona Rate, before local handicaps, before APA banger handicaps, before any rating system.Open play is the only system that is tamper proof. It is play your best, or be elimated.
Today in Arizona the better players, face the same discrimination.
Most Tournments are for the recreational players.
As Fargo increases, so do opportunities to compete diminish.
Not at all. The Arizona rating approach was quite good. It also required organization, cooperation, and work.As I stated and explained before many times. Before Fargo in Arizona we had our own Rating/Handicapping System. Went From 4 to 10, then 10-1 & 10-2. Rarting Comette ws few Players, and the Majority were Owners of Pool Places.
The better players complained the better then got, the less tournaments that were open to them. Few tournaments were 8's and Under, the Majority were 7's and Under. The Sports Bar, Pool Bar, and Last Room Owners knew the Recreation Players were their target market, because they were the group that purchased, food, drinks, and alcohol that make it possible to pay bills.
Was this a bad system? [...]