Custom and High End Cues on the Decline?
- Thread starter Logandgriff
- Start date
I would expect the Dzuricky to do the heavy lifting when it comes to total resale value. It's a beautiful pre-logo cue in near-mint condition and would cost over $2100 (plus whatever material premium for 12 inlays, joint collar, and one ferrule being made from ivory, along with another ferrule being made from old "yellow Micarta") if ordered today. It would also come with a 12-month wait. It's the combination of like-new condition, 1 of 1 design with options no longer available, and instant gratification for which people who appreciate premium craftsmanship are frequently willing to pay. (It's still not for sale.)
The Frey (not very) sneaky pete is a beautiful cue in its own right, but it pales next to the Dzuricky.
Exactly. Limited availability or even 1-of-1 does not imply custom. A true custom is made specifically for one person. It is bespoke. One could even credibly argue that, once it hits the secondary market, even a custom/bespoke cue becomes just a 1-of-1, since it was made specifically for the first owner.
My Cohen was bespoke to the guy who ordered it from Eddie. I got it 2nd hand. I would have ordered it just the same. Is it still bespoke? 1 of 1 is just 1 of 1 not bespoke?
ETA: looks like the AI agrees. I am just a second hand luxury item owner…
ETA: looks like the AI agrees. I am just a second hand luxury item owner…
I agree with you.. I don’t care if it was bought on the secondary market. If it’s a one of one by a cue maker it’s still a custom cue. My argument was a company like joss cues that I pick a cue out of a catalog that they mass produced . That’s not custom to me.
Well, that all depends on what a pool cue means to you. For younger, newer players, as you noted, they seem to follow the path of least resistance and gravitate towards the schlock mass produced by the industry that consist of man made materials of carbon fiber, plastic, rubber, drinking deeply of the kool aid the industry markets this crap with, I.E. low deflection, ding and warp proof, etc. etc.
Then there’s those that consider cues a collectible item, revering different custom makers and their cues for varying reasons. Some about the artistry of the cues, some for the notoriety of the maker and their mythical like reputation amongst other collectors and players, some for playability, some for their collectibility and or resale value.
Then there’s players, that value different custom cues for their playability alone. That have spent time in the game, and figured out whatever it is they like about a cue and gravitate towards custom cue makers whose cues have playability characteristics that check all the boxes that are important to them in a playing cue and order a cue, or multiple cues to be made geared towards what they like in both playability and or aesthetics.
I can see both sides of it. I asked an acquaintance why he put away the shafts from his custom and started using CF shafts. He likes the idea that he feels he can buy 3-4 of them and they’re all going to play the same, not ding or warp. Then there’s those are those like myself who love their customs and old school maple shafts. Those cues that they’ve had made, or found along the way, that were just a combination of a bunch of different factors that all aligned perfectly in the making of their custom, that feels just perfect to them and their style of play. Where it was just the right wood, the right glue, the right day in a custom makers career where he was at the peak of his craft and it all comes together to form something magical when in their hands at play in this game.
Then there’s those that consider cues a collectible item, revering different custom makers and their cues for varying reasons. Some about the artistry of the cues, some for the notoriety of the maker and their mythical like reputation amongst other collectors and players, some for playability, some for their collectibility and or resale value.
Then there’s players, that value different custom cues for their playability alone. That have spent time in the game, and figured out whatever it is they like about a cue and gravitate towards custom cue makers whose cues have playability characteristics that check all the boxes that are important to them in a playing cue and order a cue, or multiple cues to be made geared towards what they like in both playability and or aesthetics.
I can see both sides of it. I asked an acquaintance why he put away the shafts from his custom and started using CF shafts. He likes the idea that he feels he can buy 3-4 of them and they’re all going to play the same, not ding or warp. Then there’s those are those like myself who love their customs and old school maple shafts. Those cues that they’ve had made, or found along the way, that were just a combination of a bunch of different factors that all aligned perfectly in the making of their custom, that feels just perfect to them and their style of play. Where it was just the right wood, the right glue, the right day in a custom makers career where he was at the peak of his craft and it all comes together to form something magical when in their hands at play in this game.
I really thought I wanted to contact a maker and have them make me a cue. Then I started looking at all that's out there and decided against ordering one. I am just not that creative. Or maybe it's that I am not picky enough. I see tons of cues I would like to own in the $1k to $3k range. Maybe I will have an idea at some point that would make me want to have one made but for now I have a good time looking at other peoples ideas and looking for one I can't live without.
Although I like looking at custom cues, it has been at least ten years since I've had any interest in buying one. These days, I'm more into vintage production cues.
I bought and sold several custom cues between 2001 and maybe 2008. I drifted away from customs and to vintage production cues for three reasons: vintage production cues are usually more affordable; they have a historical provenance that's just as romantic as custom cues are; and my experience has been that they feel and play just as good. The only advantages I found with customs cues are that you can completely design your own cue, and that the wood used by custom cue makers is usually more beautiful. The beautiful wood is the only reason I might order a custom cue these days. I prefer plain janes, and a beautiful piece of wood can turn a basic cue into a stunner.
As for high-end cues, I just don't feel the need to spend all that extra money on inlays.
I bought and sold several custom cues between 2001 and maybe 2008. I drifted away from customs and to vintage production cues for three reasons: vintage production cues are usually more affordable; they have a historical provenance that's just as romantic as custom cues are; and my experience has been that they feel and play just as good. The only advantages I found with customs cues are that you can completely design your own cue, and that the wood used by custom cue makers is usually more beautiful. The beautiful wood is the only reason I might order a custom cue these days. I prefer plain janes, and a beautiful piece of wood can turn a basic cue into a stunner.
As for high-end cues, I just don't feel the need to spend all that extra money on inlays.
Last edited:
sounds like the demand for custom cues is for people that are experiencing a midlife crisis.
The only cue I've ever bought and resold was a Brazilian rosewood Alex Brick merry widow. It was, and remains, the most beautiful merry widow I've ever seen. I'm not sure I've ever seen more beautiful wood used in any cue.
I needed cash to go see about a girl, and I foolishly sold the cue to get it. Since it had a wrap, it was never going to be a cue with which I particularly enjoyed playing, so it was the one that I offered up for sale.
Fortunately, it didn't work out with the girl. Unfortunately, I had to sell a gorgeous cue to learn that. Live and learn, I guess.
Last edited:
Rusty in Montana
Well-known member
Maybe so on the midlife crisis , but on the other hand older folks may also have the expendable cash to be able to afford a custom cue , extra shafts and a case that the younger folks don't have yet . As they're trying to buy a car , house and have a family ? So their extra money goes towards those expenses .
Don't forget the medical bills that can suddenly appear out of no where !
Midlife, yes. Crisis, no. The wife and I are DINKs. My only issue is the hope that my nephews will play with the cues when they inherit them.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Tell that to Zen haha
See above
The more I learn about cues, the more I respect those upper/middle tier garage/small workshop guys doing fine work.
Once you guys die, the next gen will be fully weened onto a different perception of 'custom' and some mass-produced re-hashed concept, done slightly different, labelled as future tech.
I have a Zen and a Vigus. The Vigus is listed for sale, but I could happily keep it forever. The Zen I got for a good price, from a lucky situation.It's my setup now, and I will play with it until I can no longer play, but I would never pay full, or even the very good price I did pay if I were to buy a new cue today.
Sounds like a comment from a member of The View.
I used to have some beautiful customs but I play at bars and it was more of a worry then it was worth. It’s like having a classic car that you’re always worried about taking it out because something will happen to it. So one year before a big Vegas trip that I was worried about taking my Timmy Scruggs on I switched to a cheap predator and played with that ever since.
Rusty in Montana
Well-known member
I'm just backwards from you when,i,came back to playing pool I restarted with a predator sneaky Pete then a predator BK 2 to a Mike Gulyassy playing cue and a sledgehammer I still rotate between them from time to time .
I have a simple, irrefutable way to declare my cues a custom one of a kind pool cue.
Not only do I own these pool cues but I am the person that designed the darn cues.
I also have my initials in a few cue butts but Bob Runde made it pretty clear when he
built my cue over 40 years ago that it was a 1 of 1 cue and it was built for me…..twice.
I am the only customer that ever rejected a custom design cue Bob made for them and
asked for a refund or a do over. He inscribed the butt of the 2nd cue to prove it was mine.
Not only do I own these pool cues but I am the person that designed the darn cues.
I also have my initials in a few cue butts but Bob Runde made it pretty clear when he
built my cue over 40 years ago that it was a 1 of 1 cue and it was built for me…..twice.
I am the only customer that ever rejected a custom design cue Bob made for them and
asked for a refund or a do over. He inscribed the butt of the 2nd cue to prove it was mine.
Attachments
TeddyKGB
Active member
Honestly, the worst part about buying a custom cue is dealing with the cue maker. Theyre usually slow to respond at best, sometime unresponsive altogether. If I could order a cue from someone who communicated and had less then a 6 month wait I'd be buying 2 cues a year just for the hobby of it.
I can understand and agree with you about demeanor but that is just poor selection by the person looking to have
a pool cue built. There are very reliable cue makers that are as courteous and reliable as you could ever imagine or
hope to do business with. When I became acquainted with Bob Owen back in 2012, he was working for at Shurtz
Cues and also built custom cues under his own name. Since then, Jack retired after sellling the business to Bob and his custom cue building zoomed to the top of the charts due to his flawless workmanship and demeanor. When I call the shop, Bob still answers the phone and regardless of the passage of time, it’s like talking with an old friend.
Now where I strongly disagree with you is looking for a cue maker with less than a 6 month wait. How long should a cue take to build a cue versus how long does the best cue makers take building a cue? A well crafted cue needs to stand the test of time and the design determines how long it will take. Cues are rated in Levels and the higher the level, the greater the number of inlays and veneers aren’t inlays. But veneers take a lot longer to create because of drying time. The best cue makers let the veneers sit for a long time. The intricacy of the design can be laborious to undertake.
There’s also CNC programming time that can take many hours as Bob found out building my cues that have ornate designs. And how many orders should a cue maker have underway at the same time and remember cue making still requires hands on involvement. Some of the best cue makers are 1 man shops or at most 2-3 people. From start to finish a cue can take anywhere from 10-18 months.
So while your cue is underway, the cue maker still has to juggle all the order orders and stage them. Custom cue makers have slots and groups of cues, not a single order awaiting to be placed. The number of cues in each slot is determined by the cue maker’s equipment capacity, number of machines, etc. so when you call and place an order, don’t be surprised to hear there’s a waiting list and the more popular the cue maker, the longer the wait. It is that simple. It’s that way because of supply and demand.
Unless or until the cue builder decides to increase capacity, presuming it seemed feasible or was even desirable when they seem okay with the status quo, you shut up, place your order and wait. If that doesn’t work, shop the secondary market and see what your can find. Hopefully the cue would have the specs you wanted and of course, the design appeals to you since you’re settling and likely paying more too. Yeah, paying more because the longer the wait period, the higher the asking price becomes for a pre-owned cue. Joel Hercek is like 7-8, maybe 10 years wait to start your order. Call Southwest & see their time. It makes Hercek look like a Grub Hub order in contrasting turnaround time.
I want my cue maker to have a waiting list. My custom cues by different cue makers took 12-16 months to build. You just add that to the cue maker’s wait list time and if I don’t like the number, I don’t order the cue. I’m 80 yrs. old so screw that. I don’t want to have the cue delivered to the funeral home. I ain’t got time to waste. I’ve become an instant gratification buyer in most everything. If I have to wait long, I’m too impatient since I dunno how more sunrises are in store for me. Nope, if I want a cue, I’d want to buy it and get delivery within 48 hrs. for satisfaction sake and also fast moving shipments tend to get tracked better and delivered has been my experience.
Production cue companies have cues underway at various stages all the time so finishing a cue is faster than selecting the wood and starting a cue. So if you want you cue built that fast, contact one of those firms and see if they have a custom order section. The larger firms probably do and the turnaround time will be more to your liking.
Last edited: