Custom Cues - Hit and Feel

Wolven

Wolven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is a thread here about which cue hits/feels best. I would like to know the why.
It would be nice to catalog the difference between various custom cue makers when comes to construction the way the cues are put together, perhaps info on balance point, type of joints, bolts, type of hit/feel, kind of feedback, shaft specs, etc., pretty much anything that makes them distinctive from each other.

Any info greatly appreciated!
 
I'm for flat-faced joints that put wood to wood. The idea of putting steel or ivory between the union of wood shaft and butt is absurd to me. I want resonance transmitted to my stroking hand. Putting ivory and particularly steel between wood ensures that the resonance and the audible report it makes will be compromised.

Balance point, shaft taper, butt diameter and weight are simple issues any capable cuemaker can adjust to the needs of the user.

As for construction, I favor joints that put a large pin into wood. Radial, 3/8-10 and 3/8-11 in either steel, brass, titanium or g10 all work fine. The pin material choice is more about fine tuning balance point and weight than what it does to the hit. With that said, I have hit a couple of cues lately that used a g10 pin. Both hit nicely. So I'm not sure if it was a function of the pin or simply that they were well designed and made cues and the pin was coincidental.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced the best hitting cues use an A-bolt to join the handle to the forearm. This, opposed to a full core. My theory is full coring produces a very solid but dull hit, with little feel. I've been talking to a pro player friend and with his cuemaker about this. The cuemaker had gone to full core butts, but agreed to make a couple of test cues without any coring and employing an A-bolt so that we might compare the two designs. When those cues are ready, I'll give you all some feedback on the result. For what it's worth, I very much favor the hit of Southwest cues, and the player I mentioned also favors the stiff, resonant hit of a SW (he wants mine!). So that is the type hit we're looking for.
 
Thanks for you thoughts that's exactly the info I was looking for.
Too bad more people don't want to share their thoughts on the custom cues. I was thinking of getting one but not sure who to go with..
 
Wolven said:
Thanks for you thoughts that's exactly the info I was looking for.
Too bad more people don't want to share their thoughts on the custom cues. I was thinking of getting one but not sure who to go with..
Click to expand...


wood to wood is the best ..Carolina Custom .. the way to go..
 
You will get roughly 40 different answers to your question, so good luck...

But here's my advice:

1.) test drive some different cues, from different makers.

2.) buy used.

2.) If you insist on ordering a new cue, know that your first custom cue won't be your last. You might order a flat-faced ivory cue and a year later decide you want a ss piloted cue, or a different forearm wood, etc...In light of that, you should order a cue that has some resale value. I would recommend a plain jane type cue from a reputable maker.

-Roger
 
I would like to 2nd the opinion of buying used for the same reason as the previous poster, and additionally based on my experience. Almost every cue I've ever owned (custom/production) from a brand new state have changed in the way they played and hit in the first 6-12 months of ownership. In that sense, I don't mean a change for better or worse, just simply change. I've had cues start out really stiff getting softer over time, the opposite, and have also had cues change the way they deflect over the same period of time. My guess is that it might have something to do with breaking in a cue. Don't know the physics behind my opinion because brand new cues with brand new shafts don't mean you're using brand new wood, but I still hold to my opinion that a cue will take 6-12 months of 'settling' before it shows it's true colors. Based on my experience, a used cue older than 3 or so years plays and hits the same from day one, to several additional years later.
dave
 
Wolven, I suggest describing the hit you like.
What have you tried and liked/disliked?
 
I'm becoming increasingly convinced the best hitting cues use an A-bolt to join the handle to the forearm. This, opposed to a full core.
I only know of Black Boar who sleeves his cues from joint to buttcap.
Almost all are still A-jointed except full-splices.
I use wood tenon, no bolts.
 
trying a few out is the only way you'll find a cue "hit" you'll like. If you have the money to spend on a custom then I suggest buying used ones for a good price. If you don't like it after a while, sell it for what you paid, or at worse a tiny loss (think of it as renting a custom cue) :)

This doesn't answer the question about hit, but might help in deciding on a custom. When I went shopping for a custom I had only played with 3, a Cognoscenti, Richard Black, and Bludworth. I thought I was going to buy one of these. I started watching the threads here for cuemakers that made great cues, I thought I would try a few first before deciding on my limited knowledge of the 3 above. 2 came up frequently, Andy Gilbert and Tim Scruggs. I bought a Scruggs, felt great, sold it. Bought a Gilbert, felt good, sold it. Bought another scruggs, felt great, sold it. Did this with 3 scruggs, 2 Gilberts, another Cog, borrowed a Diviney too. I made as much as $75 on one cue and lost as little as $50 at the worst. In the end I think I came out on top at around $150 profit and exchanged a couple thousand back and forth. In the end I had tried 7 cuemakers, and I liked Scruggs the best.

it's time consuming, but if you don't know anyone with custom cues, and you already have money set aside try a custom at a good price, then sell it to buy another. Worked for me.
 
Thanks everyone for input. Greatly appreciated. I have played with few production cues: Falcon, Predator, Tiger, Viking, Meucci, Cuetec, McDermott a few others that cannot remember the names of.

Viking feels like a boat. Falcon was nothing special same went for Predator 4K. Tiger feels good but the hit of x-shaft is extremely!!! stiff. Meucci was ok

I seem to do better with cues that are butt heavy like P2 but I like the feel of front heavy cue.

I’m going to take your advice and buy second hand custom just to see the hit.

Thanks
 
JoeyInCali said:
I'm becoming increasingly convinced the best hitting cues use an A-bolt to join the handle to the forearm. This, opposed to a full core.
I only know of Black Boar who sleeves his cues from joint to buttcap.
Almost all are still A-jointed except full-splices.
I use wood tenon, no bolts.
Click to expand...

I know of two others, one in Atlanta and this other fellow I mentioned, who use a full length core.

Using a wood tenon sounds like a good idea. I've also heard of cue makers using g10 (Joey Gold, for one), which also sounds good.
 
Hi,

Go to trade shows, and tried different cues, and talk to the cue makers.

I also agree what Twilight said, buy some cues with a strong resale value, try them out, and if you do not fall in love, you can always sell them. This gives you the option to use the cue in a tournament or a match under pressure, which can really tell you if the cue is good for you or not.

The "hit" is very subjective. Look at how many different strokes there are out there, and there is somehow a cue for every stroke.:)

Good luck,
Richard
 
tedkaufman said:
I know of two others, one in Atlanta and this other fellow I mentioned, who use a full length core.

Using a wood tenon sounds like a good idea. I've also heard of cue makers using g10 (Joey Gold, for one), which also sounds good.
Click to expand...
Who in Atlanta?
 
JoeyInCali said:
I'm becoming increasingly convinced the best hitting cues use an A-bolt to join the handle to the forearm. This, opposed to a full core.
I only know of Black Boar who sleeves his cues from joint to buttcap.
Almost all are still A-jointed except full-splices.
I use wood tenon, no bolts.
Click to expand...
I also core my cues. I only use an A joint on v splice cues. I will make one either way on custom orders. Chris.
 
Wolven said:
There is a thread here about which cue hits/feels best. I would like to know the why.
It would be nice to catalog the difference between various custom cue makers when comes to construction the way the cues are put together, perhaps info on balance point, type of joints, bolts, type of hit/feel, kind of feedback, shaft specs, etc., pretty much anything that makes them distinctive from each other.

Any info greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
in my opinion, how tightly joined the component parts are makes a great deal of difference. i like a stiff hitting cue and for me, once again surface tension seems to be the best. to me it gives more of a one piece cue feel. but that's just me.
M.C.
 
Cue performance

Although it is subjective, cue performance can be objectively measured if you know how to do it. First, you have to know what type of shots to hit with a cue in order to evaluate its performance.

It would be comparable, IMO, to putting a car through a road test. You judge a car by how well it performs when you put it through the paces, same with cues. Well, some cues just feel like a sports car would perform, a vette, a Mitsi 3000, or a Z as compared to a sedan.

Although many of us may search for the perfect cue, what we actually desire is the 'perfect cue for us'. Kind of like your wife, you know she is not perfect, but she is perfect for you ..... LOL :D

If you have ever shot a shot where your cue just did not feel right for the shot, the hit wasn't right, the balance didn't feel right, the whole shot just wasn't together like you perceived it would be, then you have not found 'your perfect cue' yet. Of course, you have to have real expectations, what is possible to do as oppsed to what is probable to do.

One deciding factor is when your overalll performance playing improves, when a cue allows you to strengthen your weaknesses (and you know what those are, even if noone else does). The right cue helps you become more consistent in your playing, at a higher performance level than you did before. Didn't your Dad ever tell you, "You need the right tool for the job?".
 
Snapshot9 said:
Although it is subjective, cue performance can be objectively measured if you know how to do it. First, you have to know what type of shots to hit with a cue in order to evaluate its performance.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll bite ... Please explain how a person can objectively measure the 'hit' of a cue.

Dave
 
Snapshot9 said:
Although it is subjective, cue performance can be objectively measured if you know how to do it. First, you have to know what type of shots to hit with a cue in order to evaluate its performance.

It would be comparable, IMO, to putting a car through a road test. You judge a car by how well it performs when you put it through the paces, same with cues. Well, some cues just feel like a sports car would perform, a vette, a Mitsi 3000, or a Z as compared to a sedan.
Click to expand...

DaveK said:
OK, I'll bite ... Please explain how a person can objectively measure the 'hit' of a cue.

Dave
Click to expand...

The way I read it, he is saying that yes the 'hit' is subjective, but the performance of a cue (how it performs on a pre-established set of different shots) can be measured. I like the analogy to a road test. Just like Car and Driver has a well defined series of tests (ie acceleration, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc) that every car is put through.. a person should put together a collection of shots representative of all facets of their game and run each cue through those consistently. At the end you should come out with two conclusions.. one being how well the cue performed this suite of shots.. the second being the 'hit'.. did you like it? Did it set off that tuning fork in your loins or however Kevin Costner said it in 'Tin Cup'?
Actually golf is a pretty decent analogy here too... I have played for over 20 yrs, and when I play regularly can hold a single digit handicap.. so for me, if I am going to buy a new club (say, a driver) I prefer to be able to take it to the course, and put it through a series of shots.. how well does it hit straight shots, draw shots, fade shots, low wind cheater shots.. how does it handle my normal swing.. how does it handle when I really crank on a swing... how far does it hit compared to other drivers. There have been many drivers over the years that did all these things just great (they performed well), but I have put it right back on the shelf because I hated the sound it made.. or hated the feel of the hit at impact, or just hated the way it looked when it was set down by the ball.
Ok enough rambling.. so in the end I guess I am saying that while you can't really measure the 'hit' of a cue, you can consistently measure the 'performance' of a cue, at least as it relates to your stroke/game.
 
cjarmst said:
The way I read it, he is saying that yes the 'hit' is subjective, but the performance of a cue (how it performs on a pre-established set of different shots) can be measured. I like the analogy to a road test. Just like Car and Driver has a well defined series of tests (ie acceleration, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc) that every car is put through.. a person should put together a collection of shots representative of all facets of their game and run each cue through those consistently. At the end you should come out with two conclusions.. one being how well the cue performed this suite of shots.. the second being the 'hit'.. did you like it? Did it set off that tuning fork in your loins or however Kevin Costner said it in 'Tin Cup'?
Actually golf is a pretty decent analogy here too... I have played for over 20 yrs, and when I play regularly can hold a single digit handicap.. so for me, if I am going to buy a new club (say, a driver) I prefer to be able to take it to the course, and put it through a series of shots.. how well does it hit straight shots, draw shots, fade shots, low wind cheater shots.. how does it handle my normal swing.. how does it handle when I really crank on a swing... how far does it hit compared to other drivers. There have been many drivers over the years that did all these things just great (they performed well), but I have put it right back on the shelf because I hated the sound it made.. or hated the feel of the hit at impact, or just hated the way it looked when it was set down by the ball.
Ok enough rambling.. so in the end I guess I am saying that while you can't really measure the 'hit' of a cue, you can consistently measure the 'performance' of a cue, at least as it relates to your stroke/game.
Click to expand...

I too am familiar with golf swing / club measurement, things like swing analysers, launch monitors, impact tape, sole tape, ball path analysis, shaft frequency meters, etc. I don't find pool stroke / cue measurement to be in the same category of objectivity, which is why I am very curious to see what Scott's method for objectively measuring cues might be .... Scott ?

Dave
 
cue testing

Try Long and short shots, then try the same shots with 1/4 tip english of your choice, next try 1/2 tip english, full tip english and vary speed (slow, med, hard) with each shot. Try a full range of shots, varying each shot a small bit each time. Every cue has strengths and weaknesses and if you play long enough, you will feel each particular cues. Search for the cue which plays over the largest range of shots you use during the game you play the most. Remember the power you need in 9-ball is much different than the finess required for one pocket or straight pool. If you are a beginner, go to an instructor in your area and have them hit with one of the cues similar to the one you are considering (weight, balance point, shaft taper,and joint). He can show you how he tests a cue. Good luck, Kent
 
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