Custom vs. production cues
- Thread starter mantis99
- Start date
the custom cue will deffinatly hold a better value then the production cue..
and its not about the look or finish.. its all the custom cue is hand cut and hand inlayed and better materials are used in making the cue.. like old shaft wood that was properly cared for for years and years..
the production cue, made on a machine by a computer.. no blood sweat and tears.. computer cut, computer inlayed and who knows what materials they are using.. and they are probably produced 1000's at a time..
sometimes the production cue is the better way to go because of discounts and budget.. or if your not a serious player and just like to use something better then a house cue..
the custom cue, usually cost alot more, hold their value better, may be worth more then what you paid after a few years of owning it..
really its all about "The Love of the Game" and about buying what you like...
the only production cue i really would only considering buying would be a Schon... they make a great cue, sometimes you can find them at good prices.. and they play great and feel strong.. and they use the best material available to them..
i had a fancy schon ltd one time and it was retail about 2k.. i paid 1400 for it.. and when i sold it to buy a custom, i got about 700 for it.. took a huge hit if i explained the deal.. but i was dead set about buying the Paul Mottey cue in my signature.. if it was a custom cue made by a well known cue maker with sharp inlays and all hand made, made by say Paul Mottey, that schon would be well over 4k in cost..
its all about how much you want to be involved with the hobby..
chris
and its not about the look or finish.. its all the custom cue is hand cut and hand inlayed and better materials are used in making the cue.. like old shaft wood that was properly cared for for years and years..
the production cue, made on a machine by a computer.. no blood sweat and tears.. computer cut, computer inlayed and who knows what materials they are using.. and they are probably produced 1000's at a time..
sometimes the production cue is the better way to go because of discounts and budget.. or if your not a serious player and just like to use something better then a house cue..
the custom cue, usually cost alot more, hold their value better, may be worth more then what you paid after a few years of owning it..
really its all about "The Love of the Game" and about buying what you like...
the only production cue i really would only considering buying would be a Schon... they make a great cue, sometimes you can find them at good prices.. and they play great and feel strong.. and they use the best material available to them..
i had a fancy schon ltd one time and it was retail about 2k.. i paid 1400 for it.. and when i sold it to buy a custom, i got about 700 for it.. took a huge hit if i explained the deal.. but i was dead set about buying the Paul Mottey cue in my signature.. if it was a custom cue made by a well known cue maker with sharp inlays and all hand made, made by say Paul Mottey, that schon would be well over 4k in cost..
its all about how much you want to be involved with the hobby..
chris
TrickyRicky
happy, happy, joy, joy!
Buy a Schon and have the best of both worlds
Rick P.
Rick P.
ChrisOnline said:
i'm sorry chris but you are a little misinformed. when it comes to the production of cues, just about all cues are basically made the same way. they're all turned, assembled and inlaid in very similar ways. there is no such thing as a computer assembled and inlaid cue, at least not a machine i'm aware of. as far as the other computer controlled machinery and non computer controlled, they all function exactly the same. one is controlled with the use of your hands moving the milling, turning tools ( many with the use of digital readouts to be more exact ) and the other by, in a very simple explanation, electronic motorized gearing and the like. they're all assembled and inlaid by hand, production or not, and the use of computer controlled machinery to mill and turn has nothing to do with "no blood sweat and tears" that's just a fools gold phrase. the difference between production cues and custom cues are time, quality materials, attention to detail and possible custom specs for an individual player. as far as time, custom makers "season" they're normally unstable materials for long periods of time to insure a better chance of stability. they also take the nessesarry time between certain steps of assembly and inlay to assure logevity. production companies can't do this because the production numbers would go down as well as price have to rise and sales drop dramatically. they'd go broke quickly. as far as quality materials, lets just say many custom makers have they're private stashes and have special relationships with good suppliers to keep them stocked. not to mention good custom makers will spend more money for better materials and production will just try to get the best deal, leading to lower quality. for attention to detail, that speaks for itself if you know what to look for. the custom specs also speak for itself.
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just asking
I am just wondering here..dont fry me if i am off base...
here is a pic from blackboarcustomcues...... it shows the cue maker doing something that dosent jib with the "blood sweat and tears" mantra mentioned earlier...
dont get me wrong ... i am not suggesting anything.. I am just saying that that picture dosent portray the image of "custom handmade one of a kind blah blah blah" ....
Once again ..just asking.. I dont know the first thing about actually making a cue...but that does not really look like he's carving inlays with a pocket knife
I am just wondering here..dont fry me if i am off base...
here is a pic from blackboarcustomcues...... it shows the cue maker doing something that dosent jib with the "blood sweat and tears" mantra mentioned earlier...
dont get me wrong ... i am not suggesting anything.. I am just saying that that picture dosent portray the image of "custom handmade one of a kind blah blah blah" ....
Once again ..just asking.. I dont know the first thing about actually making a cue...but that does not really look like he's carving inlays with a pocket knife
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smokeandapancak said:I am just wondering here..dont fry me if i am off base...
here is a pic from blackboarcustomcues...... it shows the cue maker doing something that dosent jib with the "blood sweat and tears" mantra mentioned earlier...
dont get me wrong ... i am not suggesting anything.. I am just saying that that picture dosent portray the image of "custom handmade one of a kind blah blah blah" ....
Once again ..just asking.. I dont know the first thing about actually making a cue...but that does not really look like he's carving inlays with a pocket knife
this subject has been rehashed so many times and all i can tell you is do the research here and search for threads and talk to the top makers and collectors on the subject and you'll find all the answers your looking for. then you will see why the more expensive cues command their price and why what you see in that pic is definitely "blood sweat and tears".
it's all about you
i know of only one guy in my area that has a custom.it is a fancy sp made by a reputable cue maker that frequents this board.it is very nice looking and well made and i might add priced very fair.
i shoot with a lucasi that has a nostalgic look,which i like and i like how it plays.i however would like a custom because i would like something that is mine and mine only.
a total custom cue right now is out of the question,but when i got the itch and kicked the idea around i tried my friends custom to see if this maker was the one for me.
now our cues are similar in that the shafts are the same diameter and both have a ss joint,i just didn't like the feel of it. it was ok and might be exactly what someone else wants but it didn't jump out at me or move me.
for me my lucasi feels better but there might be some other makers out there that might feel better to me.
there are some makers on this board like varney,bhq,rat, and a few others whose work looks great to me and that i will be checking out in the future when i do have the money for a custom.
i know of only one guy in my area that has a custom.it is a fancy sp made by a reputable cue maker that frequents this board.it is very nice looking and well made and i might add priced very fair.
i shoot with a lucasi that has a nostalgic look,which i like and i like how it plays.i however would like a custom because i would like something that is mine and mine only.
a total custom cue right now is out of the question,but when i got the itch and kicked the idea around i tried my friends custom to see if this maker was the one for me.
now our cues are similar in that the shafts are the same diameter and both have a ss joint,i just didn't like the feel of it. it was ok and might be exactly what someone else wants but it didn't jump out at me or move me.
for me my lucasi feels better but there might be some other makers out there that might feel better to me.
there are some makers on this board like varney,bhq,rat, and a few others whose work looks great to me and that i will be checking out in the future when i do have the money for a custom.
[
Funny you should say that. I use that example all the time when the debate of CNC versus non CNC production comes up. People love to use the term "handmade" to describe a cue that is made without the aid of CNC. The reality is that if the cuemaker is using tools like a lathe and pantagraph etc, how can you say that it is hand made? My response is " nobody is sitting around whittling these out with a pocketknife". I do not think you would want a cue made by that method IF you did find it!
So if a carpenter uses a hammer and nails to buld something that is considered handmade, but are you going to tell me that if he upgrades to a nail gun and compressor, it suddenly is not? A CNC machine is just another tool at a cuemakers disposal, which I may add is not so easy in itself to learn how to use. Why wouldn't you use a more efficient way to produce a superior product, if it was at your disposal? So these cuemakers shouldn't use computers and cell phones, and should hide out on a mountaintop and carve out cues out of raw trees to be respected, I guess. I have worked in trades most of my life, and have done the same job with and without specialized tools, and if there is something I can use to increase productivity and make a better finished product, I will use it every time. This does not mean I am not knowledgeable or experienced at what I do. I guess everyone on here is writing on a typewriter too, right? My opinion is that anyone who uses the aid of a computer to write is not a REAL writer and therefore whatever they say is irrelevant!
Hey, I think I see a NEW market to tap into. AMISH CUES. Any REAL cuemaker doesn't need electricity. I think it is kinda ironic that this point of view comes out on the internet, where just about everybody is at least mildly up on current technology, and is taking advantage of its convenience.
]Once again ..just asking.. I dont know the first thing about actually making a cue...but that does not really look like he's carving inlays with a pocket knife
Funny you should say that. I use that example all the time when the debate of CNC versus non CNC production comes up. People love to use the term "handmade" to describe a cue that is made without the aid of CNC. The reality is that if the cuemaker is using tools like a lathe and pantagraph etc, how can you say that it is hand made? My response is " nobody is sitting around whittling these out with a pocketknife". I do not think you would want a cue made by that method IF you did find it!
So if a carpenter uses a hammer and nails to buld something that is considered handmade, but are you going to tell me that if he upgrades to a nail gun and compressor, it suddenly is not? A CNC machine is just another tool at a cuemakers disposal, which I may add is not so easy in itself to learn how to use. Why wouldn't you use a more efficient way to produce a superior product, if it was at your disposal? So these cuemakers shouldn't use computers and cell phones, and should hide out on a mountaintop and carve out cues out of raw trees to be respected, I guess. I have worked in trades most of my life, and have done the same job with and without specialized tools, and if there is something I can use to increase productivity and make a better finished product, I will use it every time. This does not mean I am not knowledgeable or experienced at what I do. I guess everyone on here is writing on a typewriter too, right? My opinion is that anyone who uses the aid of a computer to write is not a REAL writer and therefore whatever they say is irrelevant!
Hey, I think I see a NEW market to tap into. AMISH CUES. Any REAL cuemaker doesn't need electricity. I think it is kinda ironic that this point of view comes out on the internet, where just about everybody is at least mildly up on current technology, and is taking advantage of its convenience.
poolpro said:[
]
Funny you should say that. I use that example all the time when the debate of CNC versus non CNC production comes up. People love to use the term "handmade" to describe a cue that is made without the aid of CNC. The reality is that if the cuemaker is using tools like a lathe and pantagraph etc, how can you say that it is hand made? My response is " nobody is sitting around whittling these out with a pocketknife". I do not think you would want a cue made by that method IF you did find it!
So if a carpenter uses a hammer and nails to buld something that is considered handmade, but are you going to tell me that if he upgrades to a nail gun and compressor, it suddenly is not? A CNC machine is just another tool at a cuemakers disposal, which I may add is not so easy in itself to learn how to use. Why wouldn't you use a more efficient way to produce a superior product, if it was at your disposal? So these cuemakers shouldn't use computers and cell phones, and should hide out on a mountaintop and carve out cues out of raw trees to be respected, I guess. I have worked in trades most of my life, and have done the same job with and without specialized tools, and if there is something I can use to increase productivity and make a better finished product, I will use it every time. This does not mean I am not knowledgeable or experienced at what I do. I guess everyone on here is writing on a typewriter too, right? My opinion is that anyone who uses the aid of a computer to write is not a REAL writer and therefore whatever they say is irrelevant!
Hey, I think I see a NEW market to tap into. AMISH CUES. Any REAL cuemaker doesn't need electricity. I think it is kinda ironic that this point of view comes out on the internet, where just about everybody is at least mildly up on current technology, and is taking advantage of its convenience.
aparently you wouldnt see any difference between a robot and a living creature?
We are getting off the subject. The real question is, does a custom cue have increased playability that is worth the added cost or not. I understand that something made more slowly with greater attention to detail will in the end result be better in ways. I just wonder whether or not there is enough room in a pool cue that the increased attention to detail can make that much of a difference given similar quality materials. After all, it is just a stick that has to hit a ball straight. I know that is an extremely simplified definition of a pool cue, and I do not mean it as an insult, but it does have some truth to it. A car has many parts that can have huge variations in quality and build. Put these part together better and the end result is huge. As I understand it (which is not very well), a pool cue is a few pieces put together. The different pieces change the feel, but not necessarily the performance. Then again, I am asking this question because I really have no experience with a quality cue of either build, and trust the vast knowledge on this board.
Commentator says thatall those fancy inlays may give the owner a better mindset and therefore a competitive edge.
So now you know why you want to pay all those bucks for bling.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xMkzMmEiXOk
Seems to me that the closest thing for shooting comparable to a fancy cue is a heavily hand engraved rifle shotgun or handgun - the custom work doesn't improve function Will I catch hell around here for that crack
But tell me, would you engrave a Glock?
So now you know why you want to pay all those bucks for bling.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xMkzMmEiXOk
Seems to me that the closest thing for shooting comparable to a fancy cue is a heavily hand engraved rifle shotgun or handgun - the custom work doesn't improve function
Will I catch hell around here for that crack But tell me, would you engrave a Glock?
mantis99 said:
There are plenty of people who know more about pool than I do on this site, but in my opinion you are better off getting a relatively inexpensive production cue until you figure out what you like. There is a difference in playability between different production cues, different custom cues and even different cues made by the same person. Your best bet is to hit a few thousand balls and get an idea what you like.
alstl said:
Alstl's post perfectly states what I was about to begin with. Imagine spending $1500 on a SS production cue and then discovering that your really prefer the hit of a flat-faced joint!
That being said, I believe that for the most part, custom cues will generally have greater playability than a production cue simply as a result of the selection of higher quality materials and greater attention to workmanship. A Schon, in my opionion, has a hit comparable to the best custom makers, but for the most part, custom cues play better.
P.S.--I play with a Schon, so I may be biased, but if you take a look around, I believe that Schon may be the most widely used "production" cue used by 'A' players and above.
I agree that one needs to hit a lot of balls with different cues to understand what they like. The difficulty is that not many people have access to a number of different cues of good quality to decide what they like. I currently have 3 cues that I use (none of significant quality). One is a $30 walmart graphite cue that I use to break with. The second is a brand called "Viper" which I have never heard of before. It is my bro-in-laws cue that he paid approx $100 at pool-a-rama for that he leaves at my house. The other is a $100 "players" cue that I have. None of these are expensive, but they are different. The players and walmart cues are well balanced throughout. I play the best with the players cue, but it seems to have the most resonance with hard hits of all the cues. Surprisingly enough, the walmart cue has a very similar feel and seems to play nearly just as well, even where spin is concerned (maybe even just as well, bit I have a hard time saying it is as good as my othe cue). The Viper has the most solid hit, but is very shaft heavy. It feels very smooth to me, but also very different. It always feels good to play with it, but when Ipick the players cue back up, I always prefer its overall feel in balance. That is the extent of my experience. I am sur ei have hit thousands of balls with these cues. Does that give me enough to know what I want? I am not sure. Would a $500 cue outperform the walmart cue by a lot. It sounds like a ridiculous question, but the other 2 cues don't, and in the end, I play just as well with it as anything else. I am certainly no pro, but I will run 15 fairly open balls on the table 50% of the time, so I am not a complete hack either. A lot of my question stems from this example. IF the walmart cue is so close to 2 $100 cues in playability (certainly not look or even joint), can spending $500 or more really help that much. Maybe it is unfair to use $100 cues as any kind of benchmark, but it is all I have. I really do not care about appearance at this time, just playability, so if it is not going to reasonably improbe my consistency and level of play, it probably is not worth it to me. Sorry for the length of the post!
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