Cut shots - Outside English or Inside English?

DougT

DougT

Illustrated Principles
I had been having trouble in making cut shots consistentently, say 30-45 degree cuts.
Now I aim using ghost ball, rather than contact point, and then adjusting a bit further to use outside english.

My accuracy has jumped pretty dramatically, even on some pretty thin cuts.

So my question is, does outside english help on cuts?
Or am I simply aiming better, and the outside reduces skidding or throw?

By the way, in this (my first) post, I'd like to thank the contributors for their knowledge and thoughts that have helped with my game. I've jumped up somewhat dramatically this year, in great part from some of the info I've gleaned here. Now and again, I'll read something and jump up to go try it out. So, to you I say thanks. I've been lurking in these parts for about 6 months now.

Doug
 
DougT said:
I had been having trouble in making cut shots consistentently, say 30-45 degree cuts.
Now I aim using ghost ball, rather than contact point, and then adjusting a bit further to use outside english.

My accuracy has jumped pretty dramatically, even on some pretty thin cuts.

So my question is, does outside english help on cuts?
Or am I simply aiming better, and the outside reduces skidding or throw?

By the way, in this (my first) post, I'd like to thank the contributors for their knowledge and thoughts that have helped with my game. I've jumped up somewhat dramatically this year, in great part from some of the info I've gleaned here. Now and again, I'll read something and jump up to go try it out. So, to you I say thanks. I've been lurking in these parts for about 6 months now.

Doug
Click to expand...


in general (there are exceptions) using outside english below center is the easiest way to cut a ball if you understand how to use it. you are able to hit the bull more full therefore making the visulization of the shot easier. conversely inside english used with stun is the hardest way to cut a ball.

VAP

VAP
 
i think inside reduces throw, but outside gives you the ability to cut thinner because it gives more throw. so its kind of a tradeoff, since throw can be hard to predict sometimes. or was it the opposite?
 
Masayoshi said:
i think inside reduces throw, but outside gives you the ability to cut thinner because it gives more throw. so its kind of a tradeoff, since throw can be hard to predict sometimes. or was it the opposite?
Click to expand...

inside will still "throw" the ball.........just the other way.

VAP
 
DougT said:
...
So my question is, does outside english help on cuts?
...
Click to expand...
If you know about squirt, swerve and throw, then you begin to understand all the complications you are introducing when you put side spin on the cue ball. Does side spin possibly reduce some problem for some shots? Maybe. Does it introduce other problems? Certainly.

I think it's better to use the spin that's necessary for position. Usually that doesn't give you much leeway in which side spin (if any) you use.

I'm betting that if you set up a spot shot contest for the pros, most of them would play the shot without side.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you know about squirt, swerve and throw, then you begin to understand all the complications you are introducing when you put side spin on the cue ball. Does side spin possibly reduce some problem for some shots? Maybe. Does it introduce other problems? Certainly.
Click to expand...

thanks bob, much better way to sum it up than the way i explained it.

thanks

VAP
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you know about squirt, swerve and throw, then you begin to understand all the complications you are introducing when you put side spin on the cue ball. Does side spin possibly reduce some problem for some shots? Maybe. Does it introduce other problems? Certainly.

I think it's better to use the spin that's necessary for position. Usually that doesn't give you much leeway in which side spin (if any) you use.

I'm betting that if you set up a spot shot contest for the pros, most of them would play the shot without side.
Click to expand...

Well put Bob, in order to proplerly use english all 3 of the effects you mentioned need to be understood.
 
here is what I did to get a better understanding of english and how the cueball reacts after making a shot.

I would play the ghost, and the first couple of racks, I would use nothing but center ball. The next couple of racks, just left and right english, then follow on all my shots, then only draw shots the next couple of racks.

IMO, this helps in learning how to make shots using all kinds of spin and even center ball. Because of this drill, I am now able to sometimes run entire racks using just center ball, or sidespin, or draw, or follow.
 
Masayoshi said:
i think inside reduces throw, but outside gives you the ability to cut thinner because it gives more throw. so its kind of a tradeoff, since throw can be hard to predict sometimes. or was it the opposite?
Click to expand...





If you put outside english on the ball it will "throw" the ball toward the pocket. If you use inside english it will "throw" it away from the pocket :eek:
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you know about squirt, swerve and throw, then you begin to understand all the complications you are introducing when you put side spin on the cue ball. Does side spin possibly reduce some problem for some shots? Maybe. Does it introduce other problems? Certainly.

I think it's better to use the spin that's necessary for position. Usually that doesn't give you much leeway in which side spin (if any) you use.

I'm betting that if you set up a spot shot contest for the pros, most of them would play the shot without side.
Click to expand...
I do understand, Bob, and occasionally forget to compensate for one or another. I'll try more centerball for a few nights, and see how it works for me.

SJM, thanks for the link; it was indeed the same question! Good helpful discussion

VAP why do you say outside english with LOW; doesn't that just amplify all the squirt and swerve?

Typically, I use just a touch of top on most shots, especially long shots, to minimize any swerve effects if unwanted sidespin gets added
 
vapoolplayer said:
inside will still "throw" the ball.........just the other way.

VAP
Click to expand...

Just cutting a ball can will cause some "throw". Inside english sometimes eliminates this because the reverse throw compensates for the throw caused by cut shots.
 
DougT said:
I had been having trouble in making cut shots consistentently, say 30-45 degree cuts.
Now I aim using ghost ball, rather than contact point, and then adjusting a bit further to use outside english.

My accuracy has jumped pretty dramatically, even on some pretty thin cuts.

So my question is, does outside english help on cuts?
Or am I simply aiming better, and the outside reduces skidding or throw?

By the way, in this (my first) post, I'd like to thank the contributors for their knowledge and thoughts that have helped with my game. I've jumped up somewhat dramatically this year, in great part from some of the info I've gleaned here. Now and again, I'll read something and jump up to go try it out. So, to you I say thanks. I've been lurking in these parts for about 6 months now.

Doug
Click to expand...


Your question has been answered. I'll just say you need to know how the c/b reacts at different angles and speed using inside or outside. You are limiting your capabilities using your "favorite" english. Practice variables from both sides of the table. Make them both your favorite. Then you'll have a full basket.

Rod
 
DougT said:
VAP why do you say outside english with LOW; doesn't that just amplify all the squirt and swerve?

Typically, I use just a touch of top on most shots, especially long shots, to minimize any swerve effects if unwanted sidespin gets added
Click to expand...

again there are TONS of variables here. depends on the amount of sidespin used. if you use a tip or less of side spin, with a generally level cue, you're not going to get an extreme amount of curve/swerve squirt. the farther outside you go on the cue ball the more squirt, the more elevated your cue, the more swerve/curve you get.

again there are tons of variables when using sidespin. i'm sure most would agree that no more than a tip of sidespin is needed 99 percent of the time. try usind low ball, outside english, most of the time it will make pocketing the ball easier, with no more than a tip of sidespin.

oh, watch out using the top/follow on most of your shots. the object ball tends to hop off the cloth more often when using top. if you watch most of your top players, you'll find most of their shots are using center to below center ball.

thanks

VAP
 
cjgrandprix said:
Just cutting a ball can will cause some "throw". Inside english sometimes eliminates this because the reverse throw compensates for the throw caused by cut shots.
Click to expand...

good point. i was just stating that inside will still throw the ball. this thread usually comes up every few months.....................way too many variables to make one statement for everything.

bob summed it up best when he said it would make some things easier and some things harder.

all depends on the shot angle and amount of sidespin/which sidespin used.

VAP
 
DougT said:
I had been having trouble in making cut shots consistentently, say 30-45 degree cuts.
Now I aim using ghost ball, rather than contact point, and then adjusting a bit further to use outside english.

My accuracy has jumped pretty dramatically, even on some pretty thin cuts.

So my question is, does outside english help on cuts?
Or am I simply aiming better, and the outside reduces skidding or throw?

By the way, in this (my first) post, I'd like to thank the contributors for their knowledge and thoughts that have helped with my game. I've jumped up somewhat dramatically this year, in great part from some of the info I've gleaned here. Now and again, I'll read something and jump up to go try it out. So, to you I say thanks. I've been lurking in these parts for about 6 months now.

Doug
Click to expand...

Bob Jewett said it best. Use whatever spin is necessary for position. If you make it a habit of always using a certain type of english for cut shots, for example, outside, it's just going to screw up your game. If it's the last ball on the table, or my out ball, I just stick to center. That way I don't have to worry about deflection or throw.
 
you have already gotten good advise here
but also you should not develop a habit of NEEDING the outside english
to pocket the ball learn how your stroke , your cue ,ect ect squirts the cueball
or you will find yourself making "whitey" in the cross side pocket as the
object ball pockets
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you know about squirt, swerve and throw, then you begin to understand all the complications you are introducing when you put side spin on the cue ball. Does side spin possibly reduce some problem for some shots? Maybe. Does it introduce other problems? Certainly.

I think it's better to use the spin that's necessary for position. Usually that doesn't give you much leeway in which side spin (if any) you use.

I'm betting that if you set up a spot shot contest for the pros, most of them would play the shot without side.
Click to expand...

I agree, and that can explain why people miss the easy 9-ball cut. They out think themselves and forget about S/D/T.

Jake
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top