Cut Shots

trufil

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I just finished reading Mike Sigals column in BD about aiming; he says when he cuts a ball to the right he uses alittle right english and a cut to the left requires left english. Is that inside english or outside english? Why does he do that?
 
if you do a search, i started a thread on this because i felt i was englishing in too many balls. Hes talking about using outside english to cut it in, so a cut to the left youd be using right english and vice versa. I think part of it is, due to throw, etc, we have a tendency to undercut. I was reading a column saying basically you need to aim to overcut the ball usually, especially as the shot gets longer, and putting the english on a shot accomplishes this in a manner too, if you dont have alot of deflection then the ball is gonna spin out slightly from where you aim making you overcut the ball a bit. I normally use this to cut a ball, especially a long cut, if my position play allows it, it just seems to fall automatically for me.
 
It's funny that Sigel swears balls cannot be thrown, yet he intuitively uses outside english to compensate for the throw effect. Hmm....

-djb
 
To answer the original post, cutting to the right with RIGHT english (or cutting to the left with LEFT) would be using INSIDE english.
The "why" depends on the position desired for the next shot.

Troy
 
scottycoyote said:
if you do a search, i started a thread on this because i felt i was englishing in too many balls. Hes talking about using outside english to cut it in, so a cut to the left youd be using right english and vice versa. I think part of it is, due to throw, etc, we have a tendency to undercut. I was reading a column saying basically you need to aim to overcut the ball usually, especially as the shot gets longer, and putting the english on a shot accomplishes this in a manner too, if you dont have alot of deflection then the ball is gonna spin out slightly from where you aim making you overcut the ball a bit. I normally use this to cut a ball, especially a long cut, if my position play allows it, it just seems to fall automatically for me.

Ok so can some one tell me exactly what mike wrote in BD was is cutting left use a little left as the first poster wrote or was it cutting left use a little right english. As the second poster wrote. I personaly cut with out side english unless I need to get the cue ball in position somewhere else. Just wanted a little clarification. Alos the longer the rail cut shot the more outside low I use, and kind of spin the ball up the rail if that makes sense. This seems to work good if im in stroke.

thanks, Mack
 
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hell i just realised i misread the original post. If hes using right english cutting a shot to the right, the only thing i can imagine is hes aiming by hitting the inside edge of the cueball (right side) and shooting the object ball to the right because he needs a super thin cut. That would allow him to just plan on barely hitting the ball with the inside edge of the cueball, and of course some deflection would push the shot farther to the right, for the thinnest of cuts. my bad
 
Using inside english to cut balls allows the line of the stroke to be the same as the line of the contact points.
 
I've always called this 'reverse and natural' english. The original question here, right english on a right cut to me would be natual english. But to keep the thread consistent I'll use inside and outside.

I use a little inside english to make the cue ball come off the object ball more at the angle of the contact point. (used for carom shots) However I know that if I'm shooting a very soft and not a lot of cut shot, I use a little outside english to make sure the object ball doesn't squirt. I know that these two things work but two me the statements seem to contradict each other.
 
Despite what many people will say; "throw" english is real, and does work....if for nobody else but me :)


IMO, you can watch the effect at work when making especially long shots down a rail.

Try it yourself. Cut with left english for a shot to a right hand pocket...watch how it hugs the rail.

Try again with right english on that same shot, I'll bet you can see the effects in motion.


Dave
 
Teacherman said:
Using inside english to cut balls allows the line of the stroke to be the same as the line of the contact points.


That could certainly be done, but it is definitely nothing I would teach anyone. Using inside english is much more difficult than using outside english. The fact that inside is more difficult than outside probably has something to do with them also being called reverse and natural (respectively).

Example, When I'm cutting to the left and need the cue ball to come off the rail to the left I would use inside (left or reverse) english to accomplish this. It is a lot more difficult shot than using outside (right or natural) engish. This would be taught in a very advanced lesson where students are beyond the need for gimmicks like "Using inside english to cut balls allows the line of the stroke to be the same as the line of the contact points."

If the above statement was used, that would mean the more angle the cut has, the more inside english you would need to use to keep the stroke line in line with the contact point. I don't think so.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound so critical, but that statement (though true) is just not a reason to use inside english.
 
this is my experience on long or even, super thin cuts. If the object ball is on the rail, sometimes, inside english (that is to say right english on a cut to the right and vice versa) is effective as you can hit rail first and then the object ball waling it along the rail and into the pocket. Most of you already know this, I'm sure.
But when off the rail, I use outside english. I found myself constantly missing these shots all the time playing it with inside english and no english at all until a friend of mine (who owns the room) suggested i use outside. He couldn't really offer an explanantion. Neither can I. All i know is it works. Plain and Simple.
So, i go inside on the rail and outside when i'm off.
 
Cut shots, my understanding.....hence the question

I also thought that outside english is used to correct for throw....but when Mike Sigal says to use inside english (about a half of tip to a whole tip) on cut shots it makes me wonder. My copy of BD is at work so I can't quote it exactly, but unless it is a miss print, that is what it says. He's not talking about moving the cue ball for position or rail shots. Just regular cut shots.
 
pharaoh68 said:
suggested i use outside. He couldn't really offer an explanantion. Neither can I. All i know is it works.

Using a little outside english cuts down on the amount of friction between the cueball and object ball. This reduces the amount of friction induced throw and can make pocketing the ball easier.
 
woody_968 said:
Using a little outside english cuts down on the amount of friction between the cueball and object ball. This reduces the amount of friction induced throw and can make pocketing the ball easier.

exactly, that is why I said above that outside english shot is easier than an inside english shot.
 
pharaoh68 said:
this is my experience on long or even, super thin cuts. If the object ball is on the rail, sometimes, inside english (that is to say right english on a cut to the right and vice versa) is effective as you can hit rail first and then the object ball waling it along the rail and into the pocket. Most of you already know this, I'm sure.
But when off the rail, I use outside english. I found myself constantly missing these shots all the time playing it with inside english and no english at all until a friend of mine (who owns the room) suggested i use outside. He couldn't really offer an explanantion. Neither can I. All i know is it works. Plain and Simple.
So, i go inside on the rail and outside when i'm off.

thats what i was talking about in my first post.....the outside english makes you cut the ball a little thinner than you normally do.....i know what you mean, it works great for me too
 
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