Cutting silver rings

Cue Crazy

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have always cut my Nic./silver rings with a manual tool in my tool post. Curious if anyone uses their router with a straight bit to trim these? If so, what's the correct type of bit to use, A carbide? I'm already aware that the rings will heat up, just never cut them with the router, and wondering if It's possible there could be a easier way using It instead of the manual cutting tool? Also curious what others use to seal the cue before clearcote, not nelsonite, but what they seal the pores with, before final sand, and clear coating. something that will also prime the rings in the same proccess. Brand name, and type would also be of help. I am assuming answers on that would be some kind of epoxy or super glue.Thanks in advance, Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
I have always cut my Nic./silver rings with a manual tool in my tool post. Curious if anyone uses their router with a straight bit to trim these? If so, what's the correct type of bit to use, A carbide? I'm already aware that the rings will heat up, just never cut them with the router, and wondering if It's possible there could be a easier way using It instead of the manual cutting tool? Also curious what others use to seal the cue before clearcote, not nelsonite, but what they seal the pores with, before final sand, and clear coating. something that will also prime the rings in the same proccess. Brand name, and type would also be of help. I am assuming answers on that would be some kind of epoxy or super glue.Thanks in advance, Greg
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I'm still experimenting with finishing, but the last cue that I refinished was sealed using 5 min epoxy, then sanded and sprayed by my car painting buddy. After wet sanding and buffing, it looked as good as any finish I've ever seen. The problem that I'm having is getting the job done right the first time. My first cue re-finish took 3 attempts, Then a couple of cues were good after 2 attempts, Hopefully, I've learned enough that the next cue will be good right from the start. I have a tendency to sand through the finish.
 
sliprock said:
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I'm still experimenting with finishing, but the last cue that I refinished was sealed using 5 min epoxy, then sanded and sprayed by my car painting buddy. After wet sanding and buffing, it looked as good as any finish I've ever seen. The problem that I'm having is getting the job done right the first time. My first cue re-finish took 3 attempts, Then a couple of cues were good after 2 attempts, Hopefully, I've learned enough that the next cue will be good right from the start. I have a tendency to sand through the finish.
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Yes finishing can be a pain. Seems to me the first coat and wet sand is the base for the whole finish. I usually start all over If I see any problem in that first coat & sand, and I have had some luck that way. also being carefull not to sand through the finish can be tough as well in the begining stages of the finish. And delrin, is nearly impossible to get a finish to stick to. I have been able to do it, but was a royal pain, and probably won't last forever, as that's the only time I refinish It, is in other cues where the finish was peeling off that part of the cue in the first place. I am not using It in any of my cues for that reason. I do make joint caps from It though, and is great for those.
I am concidering using epoxy to seal, but kind of concerned about It yellowing down the road, or It gumming up when I sand. how is yours handling It, and how old is the finish, or how long has It been on there? Also what brand and type did you use? Thanks, Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
I have always cut my Nic./silver rings with a manual tool in my tool post. Curious if anyone uses their router with a straight bit to trim these? If so, what's the correct type of bit to use, A carbide? I'm already aware that the rings will heat up, just never cut them with the router, and wondering if It's possible there could be a easier way using It instead of the manual cutting tool? Also curious what others use to seal the cue before clearcote, not nelsonite, but what they seal the pores with, before final sand, and clear coating. something that will also prime the rings in the same proccess. Brand name, and type would also be of help. I am assuming answers on that would be some kind of epoxy or super glue.Thanks in advance, Greg
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Most any carbide router bit will cut the nickel silver rings. Just don't take real big cuts. Don't use silver rings that stick out farther than your phenolic on each side does or the bit could grab it and tear it out. I seal with 5 minute epoxy or Cue Cote. I don't use super glue as a sealer unless I am also finishing with super glue. Super glue will reject a lot of auto clear coats. Tried it before and had the whole finish peel of like a thin sheet of plastic.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
 
cutting silver rings

Cue Crazy said:
Yes finishing can be a pain. Seems to me the first coat and wet sand is the base for the whole finish. I usually start all over If I see any problem in that first coat & sand, and I have had some luck that way. also being carefull not to sand through the finish can be tough as well in the begining stages of the finish. And delrin, is nearly impossible to get a finish to stick to. I have been able to do it, but was a royal pain, and probably won't last forever, as that's the only time I refinish It, is in other cues where the finish was peeling off that part of the cue in the first place. I am not using It in any of my cues for that reason. I do make joint caps from It though, and is great for those.
I am concidering using epoxy to seal, but kind of concerned about It yellowing down the road, or It gumming up when I sand. how is yours handling It, and how old is the finish, or how long has It been on there? Also what brand and type did you use? Thanks, Greg
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Greg, don't WET SAND until the last sanding. If you wet sand, after the 1st spraying, you will have some open pores. The water & particals from your sanding will settle into any low spots & dry caked in those spots...JER
 
cueman said:
Most any carbide router bit will cut the nickel silver rings. Just don't take real big cuts. Don't use silver rings that stick out farther than your phenolic on each side does or the bit could grab it and tear it out. I seal with 5 minute epoxy or Cue Cote. I don't use super glue as a sealer unless I am also finishing with super glue. Super glue will reject a lot of auto clear coats. Tried it before and had the whole finish peel of like a thin sheet of plastic.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
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Thanks Chris, as usual you have the exact info I need. I do really apprietiate It. I don't care for silver rings as far as the playability, so don't use them much, but they sure do look nice, and really add to the beauty of a cue. I figured there had to be an easier way, just did not want to find out the hard way, and was putting one over the butt cap in a plain jane I am building right now to dress It up alittle, so thought I would ask, why It was on the brain. I have just been using one of those bits that take the little diamond shaped inserts up till now, but don't think they will work good with the more delicate trim, and I would like to try some silver trimed billet as well, so that would definatly tear out with the manual bit. The bit does not get as hot as the standard bits, but does need to cool off after a couple of passes just the same, and takes a long time to trim the thicker rings, as there is thermo in the butt cap, and you know how it loves to boil when It gets too hot. They sure do look good in some of the cues You've built. I am still trying to figure out that one you did with the engraved looking silver rings, but don't have a close enough image to see It well enough. Sure is a nice cue.
Oh, on the seal as far as epoxy goes, what brand is the best for this? I have system three quickcure 5, and the devcon 5 minute, so either is a go for me. Thanks again Greg
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Greg, don't WET SAND until the last sanding. If you wet sand, after the 1st spraying, you will have some open pores. The water & particals from your sanding will settle into any low spots & dry caked in those spots...JER
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Thanks Jer, i know exactly what you are talking about, and I will remember that, guess I've just been lucky and kept my paper cleaned, and rinsed enough to prevent It so far. I guess I should have mentioned that the way I have been clearcoating so far is by hand, and has been with real thin coats in the begining, before laying It on thicker to try and build It up once I have a smooth base. the sandings early on seem to be crucial for me to keep the orange peel to a minimum by the time I get to the final finish. I'll never get it leveled out if I don't It seems. I don't go to the micro to often until the final stages though. I am going to start using My spray gun very soon, so will have to teach Myself that method as well. I have everything, just need a water seperator, and filter for my compressor. I am going to try It that way at first, as that's what I have now, but If that does not work out, may need to try a turbine setup I guess. I have been lucky and done a few nice finishes by hand, but is alot of work, and takes alot more coats then spraying due to all the waste sanded to get it perfect. Just too time consuming for me. thanks for the input, Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
I have always cut my Nic./silver rings with a manual tool in my tool post. Curious if anyone uses their router with a straight bit to trim these?
Click to expand...

Greg, silver rings are a bit oversized and I use a tool post grinder to trim it down close to the cue dimensions. I then slowly trim using a frshly sharpened cuting tool just a little bit under the cue dimensions then I make my pass at the cue. I trim it down a bit before evry pass I make to avoid what Chris posted earlier, the tear out.When the cue is up to size, I trim the rings further a few thousands 'coz they tend to expand and break the finish in the future.

You could also do the procedure with a carbide and then trim it down after the final pass.

Hadj
 
hadjcues said:
I trim the rings further a few thousands 'coz they tend to expand and break the finish in the future.

You could also do the procedure with a carbide and then trim it down after the final pass.

Hadj
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Hadj, do they expand or the wood around them shrink?
That's why phenolic borders around them are a good idea imo.
Thnx.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Hadj, do they expand or the wood around them shrink?
That's why phenolic borders around them are a good idea imo.
Thnx.
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Joey, IMO it could happen both ways. The wood could either expand or contract depending on how it was dried and sealed and due to humidity. The metals rings, based on its malleability, when cut - I believe when a cutter passes thru, there's a portion of it that's cut and a part where it's pushed back/bends/ or dents in a way. This part IMO is what goes back and appears to expand in time. Ive noticed this since wood is a softer material than the metal rings, the bit would tend to cut more off the wood than the metal. Just basing everything on cues that I've seen where the rings could be felt thru the finish. So I cut it a few thousandths then seal with cyano then even it up with epoxy sealer.

The phenolics are good since it's a stable material and could withstand extreme temperatures and humidity. Its a pretty stable material for the metal rings to hang on too :D
 
JoeyInCali said:
Hadj, do they expand or the wood around them shrink?
That's why phenolic borders around them are a good idea imo.
Thnx.
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You know fellows, like you, I am also aware the rings need under cut, and the whole ring popping through the finish thing, I do know that it is true also from seeing It happen, but I've been thinking about that, and It just does not add up to me that the metal expands unless possibly from being exposed to some serious heat or sunlight. Seems to me that putting a cutting tool to the rings is about the most heat those things are going to see, so why would they expand more than that later, My understanding of most metals is they expand when hot and contract when cool, so if anything they should contract after being built. I have to aggree, that there might be something to that wood/material shrinkage thing around the rings, possibly as it cures over time, or just the movement between the 2, Maybe even that the rings flatten out over time, and raise up for all I know. Think I am going to use some phenolic when doing them Myself ,as most seem to think that's the way to go from what I've heard. I am curious to what shape bit you guys use to undercut with, without causing the ring to look flawed or funny on the edges through the finish afterwards? because seems as if you sand too much to buff It out, you'll end up with the ring sticking out again. Also when you under cut the final time after all tapering is done, do you line it up, and plunge cut the ring with your tool, so you don't hit the material on each side? Thanks for the input guys, can use all I can get. Greg
 
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hadjcues said:
Joey, IMO it could happen both ways. The wood could either expand or contract depending on how it was dried and sealed and due to humidity. The metals rings, based on its malleability, when cut - I believe when a cutter passes thru, there's a portion of it that's cut and a part where it's pushed back/bends/ or dents in a way. This part IMO is what goes back and appears to expand in time. Ive noticed this since wood is a softer material than the metal rings, the bit would tend to cut more off the wood than the metal. Just basing everything on cues that I've seen where the rings could be felt thru the finish. So I cut it a few thousandths then seal with cyano then even it up with epoxy sealer.

The phenolics are good since it's a stable material and could withstand extreme temperatures and humidity. Its a pretty stable material for the metal rings to hang on too :D
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Good theory Hadj, sideways pressure during cutting could cause that, As they flatten out over time they would raise up and appear to be from expansion, that is only way I could see the rings actually expand theirselves, so could be something to It as well. That was the only other I could think of Myself, because I do not believe they would get any hotter then when cutting them.
 
How about grinding a cut-off blade to either .030" or .015" and use that to under cut?
Fill it in with CA.
And go to town?
On what metal rings i've done, i just took small passes with the router as the cue was being tapered. You could hear it when it was cutting the metal.
I might try Hadj's way of undercutting (might do it with the modified cut-off blade), if i ever get around to using metal rings again :rolleyes:
 
BiG_JoN said:
How about grinding a cut-off blade to either .030" or .015" and use that to under cut?
Fill it in with CA.
And go to town?
On what metal rings i've done, i just took small passes with the router as the cue was being tapered. You could hear it when it was cutting the metal.
I might try Hadj's way of undercutting (might do it with the modified cut-off blade), if i ever get around to using metal rings again :rolleyes:
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I'm not sure if having the cut-off blade the same size as the rings would produce any cutting effect since the ring and the blade tip are of same size they would be meeting had on without producing any cuts but instead producing a lot of heat. IMO, a sharpened tool bit will do the job fine, with the cutting motion along the ways, compared to a cut-off which is parallel.

When I used to be brave, I used a small triangular file, then a folded sandpapers edge to smoothen it out :D
 
hadjcues said:
I'm not sure if having the cut-off blade the same size as the rings would produce any cutting effect since the ring and the blade tip are of same size they would be meeting had on without producing any cuts but instead producing a lot of heat. IMO, a sharpened tool bit will do the job fine, with the cutting motion along the ways, compared to a cut-off which is parallel.
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That makes sense. I still might give it a try though, and see what happens.
hadjcues said:
When I used to be brave, I used a small triangular file, then a folded sandpapers edge to smoothen it out :D
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So i'm not the only one?
And brave is right... :D
 
BiG_JoN said:
That makes sense. I still might give it a try though, and see what happens.

So i'm not the only one?
And brave is right... :D
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:D :D :D
And what about those tapered SS joints that don't match your cue specs joint size? That's a lot of metal to deal with, any suggestions to better deal with it?

Hadj
 
hadjcues said:
:D :D :D
And what about those tapered SS joints that don't match your cue specs joint size? That's a lot of metal to deal with, any suggestions to better deal with it?

Hadj
Click to expand...



Alright, let It be known, I am not really a complete stranger to It either, guess that has some to do with I don't like using them, that's why I brought the issue up, glad to see I am not the only one to let It all hang out with the ol file trick, and you guys are correct, it takes a steady hand, and a big set of those other things to even attempt It. On my tool post the bits are held on by allen set screws, and they stick out to top alittle, I can set the file on top of the tool post and use that set screw on top to hold the back of the file steady & use as a pivot, and then kind of sweep it across the ring. Yeah It can do the job, but I would like something alittle more precise. Does not always produce the best results from My experience, but have been able to do a nice job that way on many occasions. I like to think I have as steady a hand as the next guy, but Once you have all that work in building a cue, It is a scary operation to do though, so would like something alittle more precise. Greg
 
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