I don't think carbon shafts can be sanded like wood ones can, the mass of (carbon) material is pretty small
Cynergy shaft issues
- Thread starter ChopStick
- Start date
Thank you. I did not know about this. I got it registered.Cuetec Warranty
Cuetec Warranty. The cue must be registered on our website within 60 days of purchase to activate the warranty. Limited lifetime warranty applies only to the original purchaser of the cue and is not transferable. The cue must be purchased through an authorized Cuetec dealer.www.cuetec.com
Paul_#_
Well-known member
Great story. Makes me feel good for my putting tips on by hand --- its not that dangerous or scary.One day I was having a new tip put on and he grabbed the 12.5 mm collet and when he slid it on the shaft about 3" from the ferule it actually rattled and wouldn't hold tight.
If that wasn't bad enough, he was using a Porper lathe where a fair amount of the joint end of the shaft sticks out of the head and it was bouncing so bad he had to ask me to loosely hold onto it to keep it from oscillating too much because of chatter on the other end
Of course it is a defect……..taper should always change gradually, progressively but consistently
too, not back and forth or in this case, up & down. Taper should not fluctuate like the OP described
even with a wood shaft but especially with a CF shaft. Building a wood shaft involves removing wood
whereas manufacturing CF shafts involves more precise technology. This shouldn’t have happened, IMO.
p.s. j2pac’s post makes a good point.
Believe it or not, CF shaft tubes are subject to manufacturing defects. The quality protocols/manufacturing methods of the various tube manufacturers are not equal. They should be more consistent than wood, but the chance of variance is there...Having said that, I would encourage the OP to utilize the warranty.
Thanks for clarifying that…..it just seems that with the precision machinery, casting and final finish, sanding, etc. ,
I’d expect, or more candidly stated, presumed it would be more precise. But I’ve long admitted that I know zilch
about CF pool cue shafts other than they popular, low deflection, durable, impervious to warping & that’s about it.
I’d expect, or more candidly stated, presumed it would be more precise. But I’ve long admitted that I know zilch
about CF pool cue shafts other than they popular, low deflection, durable, impervious to warping & that’s about it.
Warp is a relative term. These tubes can be "out of round" enough to cause some issues. The trick is for the Cue-Maker/Production cue company to select precision blanks for the end user. Placing a warranty on a CF shaft is relatively easy for the Production company to do, because it takes less time to finish a shaft for replacement purposes. With CF, you're basically skipping the seasoning process that is required to produce a quality wood shaft.
it's not uncommon, the inconsistency of carbon fiber shafts... I have seen shafts with inconsistent specs, from Cuetec, JFlowers, Peri, How,...
many of them are not round tubes, deviates at many points along the shaft, you can feel it when rolling the shaft at different points against your fingers, you can feel it may not be perfectly round
many of them are not round tubes, deviates at many points along the shaft, you can feel it when rolling the shaft at different points against your fingers, you can feel it may not be perfectly round
I've hit with a bunch and owned few and not one had any defects you could feel against your fingers. I'll go out on a limb and say that the 'problem' the op has is far more common than what many may think. I personally don't think such small discrepancies are an issue in using the shaft.
have you tried rolling the shaft with 2 finger pressing at the shaft wall? different points, you may feel that.
I noticed that with cuetec cynergy, both break and play shafts, peri, jflowers smo... but not with revo's
I agree the minor thing the op noticed, and what I noticed, may not affect playability, but they are premium priced.
not that anal dude. i've hit a bunch of cf shafts and have never felt anything like what op or you are describing. i'm betting that if everyone on az pulled out every shaft they own they are going to run across 'micro flaws' like this, wood or carbon. i don't sweat minutia like this.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
0.09mm. Maybe as small as 0.05mm with the tolerances of his caliper and ability to use it. That's all there is to say. I would be very surprised if ANY CF manufacturer, no matter the cost or brand, holds a tolerance to 0.09mm. The mere thought is absolutely ludicrous. I have no dog in the fight but if a person does not understand that any manufactured thing has tolerances and unless it's an engine, something where human life is on the line, or an aerospace/airplane part you're not getting anything that tight in tolerances.
CF manufactures either make the tube themselves, or they buy it pre made. Just like buying a steel tube there are allowable tolerances. Perfection is always appreciated, but if a maker guarantees a shaft to 0.09mm tolerances you're likely to pay double or triple what they cost on the current market. Precision costs big dollars. The more precision, the more money it costs. Maybe on an F1 car the CF is held to that high of precision, but on a consumer product it ain't happening unless it's by chance.
I'm not arguing that in a perfect scenario a taper would not go smaller, but how do we know? Maybe the manufacturer knows something we don't. Maybe it's to help a certain sound/wave propagate through the shaft. Could be...
not that I'm saying it is, but neither of us know the design intentions of the product. I know cuemakers experiment all the time with different tapers. Who's to say? Maye by thinning in 0.09mm it makes the shaft better in some way? Less prone to stress fractures, better sound, better feel... you never know.Smart. This game is mental enough without giving yourself more reasons to doubt your equipment. This thread is about to give me an aneurysm. I do have empathy for OP though, you pay good money for something you assume it's perfect. But it's often not. Hopefully they will warranty it as a gesture of customer service, but I highly doubt it's out of tolerance.
EDIT: Couldn't resist, this could be false as it's AI:
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J2pac posted a reply to my comments and helped educate me about CF shafts.
However, I do still stand by my opinion that this shouldn’t occur and is a defect.
Now my standards might be unrealistic to some, even cue builders but it is as
simple as this. A cue is straight or it isn’t because almost straight is way of trying
to soften the fact your cue is not straight. It is like saying a woman is almost not
pregnant. It does not change she’s going to be a mom. It won’t change the facts.
Those in the know about CF shafts have the knowledge to comment about whether
this is common, atypical or occasionally happening. It doesn’t affect the performance.
However, I do still stand by my opinion that this shouldn’t occur and is a defect.
Now my standards might be unrealistic to some, even cue builders but it is as
simple as this. A cue is straight or it isn’t because almost straight is way of trying
to soften the fact your cue is not straight. It is like saying a woman is almost not
pregnant. It does not change she’s going to be a mom. It won’t change the facts.
Those in the know about CF shafts have the knowledge to comment about whether
this is common, atypical or occasionally happening. It doesn’t affect the performance.
Paul_#_
Well-known member
Despite Boogieman's surprise if ANY CF cuemaker holds a tolerance to 0.09mm, Boogieman's own AI assistant claimed some major cue companies do. Who?
I asked AI and it claimed two companires do: Cuetec does (or is it more like 0.01mm?) and Mezz does (see below). So, maybe ChopStick's Cuetec Cynergy shaft is defective provided his 0.09 mm measurement is accurate and is not more than that.
FROM AI: At least two major carbon fiber cue manufacturers, Cuetec and Mezz, specify manufacturing tolerances of under 0.1mm for certain components of their shafts. Jacoby Black has a stated diameter variance of 0.2mm -0.1mm.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I'm not going to make a stand on what AI says as it notoriously just straight lies. I'm curious what the actual tolerances are but I don't see where it's stated on their sites.
Cuetech's site says the strands in their CF are 0.007mm. So this has nothing to do with the completed shaft's tolerances.
Also, you are missing a ZERO. Not 0.01mm but 0.1mm. I know this may be very difficult to understand but 0.1mm is a larger tolerance, aka not as precise as 0.09mm. Your AI inquiry states 0.1-0.2mm just like mine did. This means that OP's 0.09mm deviation from nominal is within tolerance. AKA it's a good shaft and passes the inspection.
The Mezz says you cannot reduce the diameter beyond 0.05mm. This says nothing of the tolerance they manufacture it to. Basically all it means is if you sand the shaft you voided the warranty.
I've grown tired of this. AI isn't defensible as it makes stuff up but sounds plausible. Both for you and me.
But seriously, get a set of calipers and open them to 0.09mm. That's less than 1/10th of a mm. Ridiculously small. This isn't an engine or jet turbine we're talking about. It's a consumer grade product that is churned out by the thousands.
The only place I find tolerances listed is here: https://www.carbonfibercue.com/product/12-4mm-low-deflection-carbon-fiber-cue-shaft-blanks/ and they say +-0.2mm.
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Mr Machine
Well-known member
AI takes from the information that’s out there, it doesn’t “think” on its own (AFAIK).
If the majority of information leans towards one political party, AI will lean that way.
If the majority of information about a cue shift is advertising copy…….
If the majority of information leans towards one political party, AI will lean that way.
If the majority of information about a cue shift is advertising copy…….
That’s your opinion. Whoever makes the shafts can decide how they want the taper. IMO, if it’s not at least 4oz. It’s probably not even playable
That’s your opinion. Whoever makes the shafts can decide how they want the taper. IMO, if it’s not at least 4oz. It’s probably not even playable
Hopefully I made it clear my remarks reflected my opinion (reply #24). Isn’t that what IMO stands for?
Then I posted my standards might be unrealistic (reply #33). I thought referring to this as my standards
made this clear as well. But at least I did acknowledge that the shaft performance is unaffected. Just
keep in mind if you disagree with my comments, that’s also just your opinion so we agree to disagree.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Keep fighting the good fight. Everybody thinks that if a $12 device shows a number it is accurate to that number. You've made good and accurate points about the ability to use calipers correctly, their inherent level of accuracy/repeatability, and the manufacturing tolerances.
Most people won't believe you.