This person will just realize it's hard and go make tiktoks
De-constructing everything!
- Thread starter thenaturalpoolplayer
- Start date
Guy Manges
Registered
Fats did the rolling ob's over and over all the time and many before him... where does all the fundamentals go, all over the place... Guy
You are sadly mistaken. The op only has one goal, to sow discord and rile people at him for attention, nothing more. If he was halfway serious about any of the BS he touts he would tout it with video evidence and challenge opposition. As soon as he gets his rocks off with this thread he will move on to something equally ridiculous.
Sorry, but I believe that developing great fundamentals is the fastest track to great success in almost any sport, including billiards. Yes, one can overcome unorthodox fundamentals with natural abilities AND thousands of hours of pure play and competition- no doubt- many great self taught sports figures and musicians throughout history.
However, great consistencies are most usually born out of great fundamentals - the now present textbook ( some call robotic) strokes of our present European pool players will surpass by miles and miles the old American historic way of learning pool by just showing up at the pool hall frequently .
The fastest track , when one's play begins to break down, is to understand where the breakdown is occurring and how to right the ship.
However, great consistencies are most usually born out of great fundamentals - the now present textbook ( some call robotic) strokes of our present European pool players will surpass by miles and miles the old American historic way of learning pool by just showing up at the pool hall frequently .
The fastest track , when one's play begins to break down, is to understand where the breakdown is occurring and how to right the ship.
Guy Manges
Registered
Years ago some nice person put window pain in my beer and I played pool with the wall, the stories I heard later was I should stay away from a pool box at all cost... Guy
That's the good stuff
dquarasr
Registered
Yeah, no, I can’t. I can’t do it whether tossing fundamentals or not.
oh, hell yeah. Been there, still there.
I need to print this out and make a poster of it tp hang on the wall next to my table. Guilty as charged.
Sorry, I would say that developing great fundamentals IS the strategy to great execution- how in the world do you expect great execution without developing great fundamentals first? The IDEA is to develop the fundamentals to the point that one is NOT consciously thinking about them during execution. The only focus during a pool stroke should be on the OB aim point- period- everything else has to be developed until it is a natural part of each individual approach to each and every shot.
Of course nothing needs to be or should be "micro managed" and of course fundamentals are not the totality of pool - that is just common sense. However, the basis of great play should be formulated for beginners with great fundamentals that become second nature- then and only then will all of the necessary focus end up where it belongs- on the shot execution, that final split second when the cue begins to move forward on the final stroke- period!
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
You guys didn't believe me when I said I could run a 9 ball rack faster than Luc Salvas and then I showed you a video...just trust me on this one because I'm too lazy to get out the head cam if I could even find it. If you really don't believe me then go ahead and do it yourself.
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
I don't understand what's wrong with Russian Kenny's form? He gets down on the shot and shoots. You don't have to feather it 50 times ...just get the tip close to the cueball...confirm and go lol.
ok I see it now...he jumps up on this shot. Yes you do need to mimimize movement to be consistent. My experiment wasn't to say fundamentals don't matter but that making the ball does. If you get down on the shot, and stay down, the rest of the fundamentals will likely take care of themselves.
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He is a very good player, no doubt.
A lot of sensible posts here and I'm probably just repeating some things already said.
Fundamentals are extremely important to reach our personal capability peaks of competition. Some of the real naturals fall into them better than others. Still need tweaking. Look at the Mosconi euro team. Always working on that stuff. Depends on how far you want to go. The problem lies when the process overwhelms the artistic execution of the athlete in competition. The fundamentals need to be built into muscle memory and the subconscious as a foundation. You definitely don't need to be muddled by 15 steps of pre shot in competition.
Your brain is better free of thoughts of the physical mechanics while executing the shot in competition. You've done that work. Yet a simple setup process that keys back to all your work helps to slow down competitive anxiety. Find the line, step into it, aim and fire. This ain't just pool. This goes in golf, shooting foul shots, hitting a baseball, target sports (riflery and archery) etc.
If you start thinking of your mechanics in competition you are screwed. Your brain gets a voice of its own (literal inception) and suddenly tells you you're not comfortable. Your grip ain't right, stance off, elbows dropping etc. The simple consistent set up helps cut through that sh+t and is a bridge to the work you may have done to the physical part of your game. Everybody that ever competed in something that meant anything to them has experienced this.
Everybody's fundamentals and set ups can certainly be quite different and unique. Mike Mosconi basically said same thing I did, maybe better. Russian Kenny did the same thing on each shot in the rack I saw him. I don't think the natural guy is all wrong. I find him kind of interesting. He must've grooved some solid stuff somewhere if he's making balls from while sitting in a recliner. Question for natural. How would you teach a new player with no fundamentals.
Fundamentals are extremely important to reach our personal capability peaks of competition. Some of the real naturals fall into them better than others. Still need tweaking. Look at the Mosconi euro team. Always working on that stuff. Depends on how far you want to go. The problem lies when the process overwhelms the artistic execution of the athlete in competition. The fundamentals need to be built into muscle memory and the subconscious as a foundation. You definitely don't need to be muddled by 15 steps of pre shot in competition.
Your brain is better free of thoughts of the physical mechanics while executing the shot in competition. You've done that work. Yet a simple setup process that keys back to all your work helps to slow down competitive anxiety. Find the line, step into it, aim and fire. This ain't just pool. This goes in golf, shooting foul shots, hitting a baseball, target sports (riflery and archery) etc.
If you start thinking of your mechanics in competition you are screwed. Your brain gets a voice of its own (literal inception) and suddenly tells you you're not comfortable. Your grip ain't right, stance off, elbows dropping etc. The simple consistent set up helps cut through that sh+t and is a bridge to the work you may have done to the physical part of your game. Everybody that ever competed in something that meant anything to them has experienced this.
Everybody's fundamentals and set ups can certainly be quite different and unique. Mike Mosconi basically said same thing I did, maybe better. Russian Kenny did the same thing on each shot in the rack I saw him. I don't think the natural guy is all wrong. I find him kind of interesting. He must've grooved some solid stuff somewhere if he's making balls from while sitting in a recliner. Question for natural. How would you teach a new player with no fundamentals.
This is the common sense of it. One of the follies of forums - people gotta contribute or just tribute to these threads, voice whatever's on their minds about it, except my previous and following words of course.
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Agree with the omitted parts not so much this last part. I'm of the opinion that you should be versed well enough that you don't lose yourself in "the flow". Very often you just gotta attack the score or bleed to death. Doing this requires the kind of over preparation that allows you to get back up and on, in "battle worthy" form. Means you gotta have the centralization and wits to find the balance if you lose it.
Lmao, that video started mid rack, and it showed a miss, probably not the only miss of the rack too
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
You do realize that I set up the balls in the same layout as they were for Luc Salvas right?
After the break, there was the 2,3,5,6,8,9. The video started when Luc Salvas shot the 2 ball. The 6 ball was pocket speed and should have dropped if the shelfs were right. It was also my first and only attempt because he only got one attempt. Let's see if you can do any better.
The point wasn't just to run out balls faster than him...it was to run the same layout faster than him. Doesn't anybody else do this? Layout the balls like some pro had and see how you fair, and how fast...try it left handed etc?
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WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I'm with
Podunker's last paragraph is actually spot on for what I see in players of all sports. A friend of mine who played pro basketball in Spain once told me his favorite go-to when a guy was torching him was to complement his mechanics and say he looks like so-and-so....anything to make the guy start thinking of his mechanics. Maybe he could trick him into thinking about the how instead of the what. And the studies on this are clear: when subjects are externally-focused on outcomes, they greatly outperform those who are internally-focused on what body parts are doing and in which sequence.
I'm with Podunker here. While it is important to be able to diagnose what's going wrong and fix it, it is often best in competition to forget about it and do your best to do what you intended to do before you biffed it on the last attempt. Save the tinkering for the practice room. Sure we will have a swing thought or two to fall back on, but thinking about mechanics while executing a shot is absolute self-destruction.
Podunker's last paragraph is actually spot on for what I see in players of all sports. A friend of mine who played pro basketball in Spain once told me his favorite go-to when a guy was torching him was to complement his mechanics and say he looks like so-and-so....anything to make the guy start thinking of his mechanics. Maybe he could trick him into thinking about the how instead of the what. And the studies on this are clear: when subjects are externally-focused on outcomes, they greatly outperform those who are internally-focused on what body parts are doing and in which sequence.
Can’t get back the time I spent reading this post. Ever.
Obviously I'm not advocating pulling off to the side to fix something. I am saying you should be versed enough in pool and your technique that you _can_ deliberately filter the sloppiness. The trouble is people go in running on whatever is running. Those people may indeed play "their best" on auto. They know little else. The hypothetical pro segment of the field OTOH can produce a far broader version of pool by default. 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration - preparing in this case - is the key.