Sometimes hard all depends
If I can’t use a solid round of brass
It’s dead blow, sometimes I’ve used a piece of 2x4 with a round bar of brass if dead blow isn’t working
Dead Blow Cue
- Thread starter Biloxi Boy
- Start date
If I can’t use a solid round of brass
It’s dead blow, sometimes I’ve used a piece of 2x4 with a round bar of brass if dead blow isn’t working
Paul_#_
Well-known member
See 2020 AZBilliards discussion of the Defy carbon fiber shaft. It is described as a different and softer hit than other carbon fiber shafts.
McDermott Defy
While researching CF shafts, I've noticed very little feedback on the McDermott Defy. Even smaller companies like GO Customs have more reviews out there than the Defy & when reviewers do mass comparisons it usually isn't included. Given McDermott's size & presence, it D/N make sense to me. If...
forums.azbilliards.com
This softer hit and lack of vibration is similar to the effects of a dead blow hammer. The fact that a Defy shaft bounces off a pool table while other shafts don't suggests action like a dead blow hammer.
McDermott claims the different type of carbon fiber in Defy "consumes vibration". From McDermott description on Seybert's:
The Defy Shaft is equipped with the new SmacWrap technology previously designed for the aerospace industry. SmartWrap technology consumes vibration and softens the noise resulting in a confident, clean hit with excellent player feel and quiet sound.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Read about SMACWrap and you'll find it is nothing like a dead blow hammer. It is thin vibration damping material used between layers of cf. It is much more like the soundproofing in your car than a dead blow hammer.
I built one 20+ years ago. Hollow section of butt filled with lead shot. Let's just say there is a reason I didn't make another.
You don't want a dead blow. A pro friend and I recently discussed moving with the shot, focusing particularly on spin shots.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Let's get something straight: A cue filled with moving weight/shot will not just stop when it hits the cueball. That isn't what a deadblow hammer does either. The purpose of a deadblow hammer is to reduce the shock of the impact. If the object hit by the hammer is able to move, it will move...and the hammer will move after the impact. The deadblow hammer is used for things mentioned earlier in the thread for the reasons explained. The shot in the deadblow hammer increases the time of impact for the hammer. This means that the impact force is the same for two hammers of the same weight/velocity, but the maximum impulse is lower with the deadblow.
Deadblow hammers are important safety devices, as described in other posts. They tend to not bounce off of immovable objects and hit a person in the head. They tend to reduce shock forces in the hands/wrists of the user (especially important when setting large machinery, using 10-20 lb hammers/mallets). They tend to protect equipment, not leaving dents/dings.
But, if you hit a moveable object with a deadblow, the object and the hammer both move after contact. An 18oz 'deadblow' cue will not magically stop because it hit a 6oz ball.
What that cue will do is have some really odd acceleration forces after the hit. As @Murray Tucker said, there is a reason that anyone who makes a shot-filled cue probably won't make another.
What possible advantage could a cue with moving weight have? The contact time between the cue and the ball is so short that all of the moving mass in the cue takes place after the hit. Effectively you'd get all of the disadvantages of a light cue (need more speed for same cue ball travel, etc) with all the disadvantages of a heavy cue (takes more effort to accelerate to a given speed).
All you really get if things work correctly is a heavy ineffecient cue that feels weird. Woo-effing-hooo.
But I'm done here, y'all keep going down your ignorant rabbit holes about a cue that will magically stop moving after hitting a ball.
Deadblow hammers are important safety devices, as described in other posts. They tend to not bounce off of immovable objects and hit a person in the head. They tend to reduce shock forces in the hands/wrists of the user (especially important when setting large machinery, using 10-20 lb hammers/mallets). They tend to protect equipment, not leaving dents/dings.
But, if you hit a moveable object with a deadblow, the object and the hammer both move after contact. An 18oz 'deadblow' cue will not magically stop because it hit a 6oz ball.
What that cue will do is have some really odd acceleration forces after the hit. As @Murray Tucker said, there is a reason that anyone who makes a shot-filled cue probably won't make another.
What possible advantage could a cue with moving weight have? The contact time between the cue and the ball is so short that all of the moving mass in the cue takes place after the hit. Effectively you'd get all of the disadvantages of a light cue (need more speed for same cue ball travel, etc) with all the disadvantages of a heavy cue (takes more effort to accelerate to a given speed).
All you really get if things work correctly is a heavy ineffecient cue that feels weird. Woo-effing-hooo.
But I'm done here, y'all keep going down your ignorant rabbit holes about a cue that will magically stop moving after hitting a ball.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
Those of you who thought of this but failed, do you have your prototypes? Report or share your results? Publication of failure is an essential part of the process, right?
Paul_#_
Well-known member
Liquid Weight Cues, now Black Blade Cues, made cues for several years using the dead-blow hammer concept using ball bearings and, later, magnets. It has patents on it. The owner posted here recently (see link below). Forward your response above to him on AZBilliards.
An AZer liked the cues:
Hang-the-9 posted in post https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/have-you-tried-cues-“black-blade”-“liquid-weight”-—-cues-that-use-a-movable-weight-system.564087/
Have you tried cues “Black Blade” “Liquid Weight” — cues that use a movable-weight system?
These are cues with a shaft that contains a liquid-filled tube that has a weight that moves between two magnets. It has been discussed here but few posters had actually tried one. AZers figured the moving weights would put more forward force on shaft AFTER shaft hit the ball (using the...
forums.azbilliards.com
The owner, Glen Farr, of Liquid Weight cues, now Black Blade, posted in October about his newer cues on AZBilliards:
Have you tried cues “Black Blade” “Liquid Weight” — cues that use a movable-weight system?
These are cues with a shaft that contains a liquid-filled tube that has a weight that moves between two magnets. It has been discussed here but few posters had actually tried one. AZers figured the moving weights would put more forward force on shaft AFTER shaft hit the ball (using the...
forums.azbilliards.com
He said this about the movable-weight cues now discontinued:
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Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
My point is one discussed among certain academic researchers and publishers when evaluating an entire body of work. A lot of researchers, and perhaps even more publishers, prefer to circulate only the success stories The ventures taken down dead end rabbit holes lack appeal and as a result what they teach is often lost to posterity. When one is conducting initial research, being able to ascertain what has been previously tried but failed is often of equal value with the success stories. Both sinking and sailing ships provide jumping off places.
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DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Not really. Scientists and engineers have no moral or academic obligation to report or extensively test abject failures, unless those failures can cause grievous damage or injury.
My test on my shot filled cue was hitting some shots. It sucked, it felt horrible, it was noisy. There, that is my research and my conclusion.
There is the old saw about Edison being asked about his 1000 lightbulb failures. He replied that he found a thousand ways that didn't work. What they miss in the normal interpretation of this is that none of those 1000 attempts failed to create light. Most of them just burned up too quickly or didn't produce a usable quantity of light. Lest we forget, his first commercially successful lightbulbs lasted something like 20min.
You can try your own version if you want. You can commission some cuemaker to build one (I won't unless it is for enough money to retire).
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Sounds like Shake Weight missed their big opportunity to put their mechanism in a cue and not revolutionize pool in the same way they didn't revolutionize working out.
People looking for an improvement in cue stick design are often looking for a more "efficient" cue stick -- one that gets more speed into the cue ball for less effort in the stroke. If energy goes into something else, such as ball bearings sloshing in oil or some such, there is less energy to put into the cue ball.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
Most of the advances I see were aimed at reducing deflection. Can deflection be further reduced? Does it need to be?
Paul_#_
Well-known member
Regarding why McDermott's carbon-fiber Defy shaft (certainly its first generation shaft) did not bounce when dropped on table while other carbon-fiber shafts did? And why that shaft has a different and softer hit than other carbon fiber shafts?
Kling&Allen explained in his 2022 post copied below that according to McDermott's patent, the Defy shaft has absorbing material something like butyl rubber or, as DeeDeeCues wrote, SMACWrap used in the aerospace industry.
Kling&Allen post from 2022:
Kling&Allen explained in his 2022 post copied below that according to McDermott's patent, the Defy shaft has absorbing material something like butyl rubber or, as DeeDeeCues wrote, SMACWrap used in the aerospace industry.
Kling&Allen post from 2022:
Defy Shaft and a Little Science Question
My brother bought a Defy shaft. It’s really different. We took our shafts off and just dropped them tip first on the table. My Revo bounced up some inches. His Defy shaft just landed with a thud, no bounce at all. Is that a sign that it has better energy transfer or worse? The dealer sold...
forums.azbilliards.com
Here's the patent application on the Defy shaft:
It has a "kinetic energy absorbing insert" "made of a structural elastomeric material" like butyl rubber or "SMAC SMACTANE® SP Damping Material." At least in the drawings, this insert is in the middle of the shaft:US20210077896A1 - Cue with kinetic energy absorbing insert - Google Patents
A cue for billiard sports that has a butt section, a joint collar, and a shaft section that has a kinetic energy absorbing insert located in the shaft section of the cue. A shaft section that has a kinetic energy absorbing insert that may be connected to an existing joint collar and butt section...patents.google.com
From the Revo teardowns I've seen, it's all foam filled. So this butyl rubber insert is the reason for the difference in feel. McDermott mentions this patent application, and SMACTANE, on its website, so the drawing is probably accurate.
For what its worth, I personally like using a long maple plug as the joint plug instead of a phenolic insert. I don't like the way the pin feels screwing into phenloic and the maple plug seems less tinky sounding than just phenloic and foam
You are thinking about this in the wrong way. To approach 100 percent energy transfer you want to maximize the axial impulse component and minimize the impulse time. This would mean using something with low compression and elastic properties, like a steel rod. But since the ball is round and deflection is a problem, you need to be perfectly accurate to center ball. This can be improved by making the face of the tip huge, like a golf ball driver. So you will have a battering ram type break cue that minimizes offset error. The cue should also have mass that optimizes the human acceleration to object mass curve to maximize energy input from your arm. I don’t know that 21oz is optimal.
nice this thread just got alot more stupid
started from the bottom now we here
started from the bottom now we here
