Deal gone wrong with cyrustong

N

newbieSG

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Case closed
Thanks Richard harris for his comment and help. I will work out this issue with Richard. Also all thanks to fellow azer for their opinions.

I just brought a bluegrass cue from cyrustong (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=110664) and he described the cue to be straight. When the cue arrived, I discovered that the butt and two shafts have a roll out together and apart.

Please take a look at the video I have taken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Kcx62ft8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOktWMmwLQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySeNgQTn8Q8

I have raised my displease with the cue condition to cyrus and he say that richard harris told him that the cue is straight but have a taper roll on both butt and shafts.

I need help from the knowledgeable member in this forum to give me opinion on whether the cue is indeed "straight". Anyone can contact richard harris or ask him about this cue is kindly appreciated too.

What I am really unhappy about is the way cyrus handle this issue. I try to ask for a full refund but he decline the suggestion and now he wants to wash his hands off this matter.

First it is his fault in not mentioning that the cue has a roll out when I ask him about the cue straightness. (I expect a experienced cue dealer like himself to at least state the condition of a cue correctly. Furthermore he is a bluegrass cue dealer in taiwan.) I really do not want to blow up this issue but I think I should at least voice out the problem here so to at least let people know that dealing with a reputatable person is not always safe too. So now what do you guys think of this issue?
 
Last edited:
Take or send the cue to a reputable cuemaker and have them check the straightness while it spins on a lathe. Then you would know exactly what you have. Good luck.
 
Contact Richard Harris, he will probably let you know he doesn't sell cues with taper rolls, would most likely be happy to check it out for you.
email:
sales@poolcues.net
Good Luck,
Dom
 
hmmm

FeltMaster said:
Contact Richard Harris, he will probably let you know he doesn't sell cues with taper rolls, would most likely be happy to check it out for you.
email:
sales@poolcues.net
Good Luck,
Dom
Click to expand...



Dom's Idea is probably BEST! :thumbup2: although, the cue looks to be crooked:eek: on my opinion. Check and see if Cyrustong will refund you your money.:o


Best of luck to you!

<M>
 
Thanks and I have sent an email to Richard but I wonder if he will reply me. Regarding the refund, Cyrus has refused to refund me any money after almost a week of negotiations and I received a PM from him saying that he will not entertain any of my suggestions to correct this deal.
 
Wow

That's gonna $uck if you'll not get a refund!


Well, Im sure AZB community will back you up al the way on this one. I just hope that things will go on your way in the end.


<M>
 
E-mail

Richard Harris is usually very prompt to reply and always a pleasure to deal with in my expriances with him. Good Luck!
 
I've got news for you, a taper roll doesn't lift off the table. The stick is warped in the forearm and that is not an easy (or inexpensive) issue to address. This needs to be resolved with the seller. This is unacceptable and should not be the buyers responsibility to deal with at all. Money returned, done deal. There has been way too much of this BS on here lately.

Doug
 
I

DWBOD said:
I've got news for you, a taper roll doesn't lift off the table. The stick is warped in the forearm and that is not an easy (or inexpensive) issue to address. This needs to be resolved with the seller. This is unacceptable and should not be the buyers responsibility to deal with at all. Money returned, done deal. There has been way too much of this BS on here lately.

Doug
Click to expand...


completely agree with Doug! Also, I doubt that RH will let a cue out of his shop on this condition.

<M>
 
Sigh, When will this kind of BS end. Is the economy really that bad this time round? Even such a reputatable seller is resorted to use underhand methods to get rid of the stick:(
 
I think i am too naive, I gave him a positve feedback when I received the cue which appears to be in excellent condition. When I go to the pool room to try out the cue, then I discovered the roll out.
 
first off. NEVER roll a cue on the counter or table to check for straightness. you need to bring the cue to a cuemaker and spin it in the lathe. you know just as much now about the straightness of that cue as you did when it was still in the box.

2nd all bluegrass cues have a bit of roll in the forearm. its been discussed about a million times here. richard uses a taper more like a coke bottle not a straight taper so where you may see some light that doesnt mean the cue isnt straight, why he does this i dont know. he catches more problems bc of this. im not a fan but thats JMO

put is in a lathe. if your counter has a belly or isnt perfect you will get some variation.
 
dave sutton said:
first off. NEVER roll a cue on the counter or table to check for straightness. you need to bring the cue to a cuemaker and spin it in the lathe. you know just as much now about the straightness of that cue as you did when it was still in the box.

2nd all bluegrass cues have a bit of roll in the forearm. its been discussed about a million times here. richard uses a taper more like a coke bottle not a straight taper so where you may see some light that doesnt mean the cue isnt straight, why he does this i dont know. he catches more problems bc of this. im not a fan but thats JMO

put is in a lathe. if your counter has a belly or isnt perfect you will get some variation.
Click to expand...

Please explain how the nose can go up and down because of a taper?

It seems to me that if the nose goes up and downit is it's not straight. If it was the taper the center would stay centered even with light showing under it.
 
I am sorry that I have to face this issue with AZ and cause the trouble with all AZers.

About the deal for this issue, I had many discussion with Richard, showed him the video and talk to him about the cue condition and his comments on his side.

If we verify the cue is warped, I will refund the money and get the back cue. But Richard and I all agree the cue is perfect.

Here are some comments about the Richard.

I don't check cues rolling them on a pool table. I use 3 different tapers on the butt, plus the wrap or a finish build up can cause the butt to roll off on the table. Rolling shafts on the table isn't very good test either. The tip or finish can make them roll off a little.

The only table roll I use is to screw the cue together, put shaft up on the rail and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is off very much, the tip will bobble. And this cue was almost perfect with both shafts.

and then the email from Richard after I ask Richard if he can fix the butt.

Cyrus,

I don't think I can fix the butt to roll straight on the pool table. I don't make cues to roll straight on a table, I make them to roll straight in a lathe. Some roll straight on a table and some don't. The taper system I use on my butts is not designed to roll straight on a pool table. Tell him to look up cuemakers that use a parabolic taper on the butt, most of them don't roll straight on the table, Southwest is a good example.

I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much.

If I thought I could fix it and make this guy happy, I would do it.



And finally, an email just sent from Richard to Zhi Hui...

Zhi Hui,

Cyrus is a good reputable dealer and would not cheat anyone, I would stake my reputation on Cyrus's honesty and integrity.

I know that cue pretty well, I just worked on it. Cyrus bought the cue used and sent it straight to me to check out and fix anything it needed. I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much. Cues are just wood and wood changes a little with atmospheric conditions.

I do not roll cues on a pool table to see if they are straight, I use 3 different tapers on the butt. I check cues in a lathe, center to center. The taper I use on my shafts not much of it hits the table, so rolling them is not a good test either. The only table roll test I use is to put the cue together, lay the shaft up on the rail about 4 to 6 inches from the joint, butt on the slate and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is out of line the tip will bobble. I checked that cue this way just before I shipped it to Cyrus, One shaft was perfect and the other shaft had a very small bobble, not enough to hurt anything.

If you are not happy with the cue, ship the whole cue to me and I will build you a new cue to replace it. It may take a little while but that is the best I can do. There is no way Cyrus or me is going to cheat anyone.

Let me know if you wish to send cue to me and I will e-mail address. Blue Book of Cues # 2 has wrong address but Blue Book # 3 is correct.

Thanks,
Richard Harris
Blue Grass Cues
Richard and I do not cheat anyone. During out negotiation with Zhi Hui, he got all information about Richard's comment for this cue.

But I am sorry that I can not let him happy about this cue. So, I decide to stop to talk anymore, because I can not meet what he want and can not betray my business rule and other respectful buyers.

My other deals with arguement and what I did...

1. Sold a bluegrass ebony cue to a reputable buyer, but the handle is wrap. I sent the cue to Richard and he confirmed. Then I send the money back to buyer.

2. Sold a carolina to a buyer, but 1 shaft is warped... I refund the cost of shaft back to buyer.

Finally, thanks for your patience to read all the text.

Cyrus
 
Guys I received an email reply from Richard as posted by Cyrus mins ago. I will try to resolved this issue with Richard. All I can say is that Richard is really a top notch cuemaker who stood up to his work even when the cue is sold by one of his dealers who fails to correctly state the condition of the cue before selling.
 
Sound Fair and Reasonable!!

cyrustong said:
I am sorry that I have to face this issue with AZ and cause the trouble with all AZers.

About the deal for this issue, I had many discussion with Richard, showed him the video and talk to him about the cue condition and his comments on his side.

If we verify the cue is warped, I will refund the money and get the back cue. But Richard and I all agree the cue is perfect.

Here are some comments about the Richard.

I don't check cues rolling them on a pool table. I use 3 different tapers on the butt, plus the wrap or a finish build up can cause the butt to roll off on the table. Rolling shafts on the table isn't very good test either. The tip or finish can make them roll off a little.

The only table roll I use is to screw the cue together, put shaft up on the rail and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is off very much, the tip will bobble. And this cue was almost perfect with both shafts.

and then the email from Richard after I ask Richard if he can fix the butt.

Cyrus,

I don't think I can fix the butt to roll straight on the pool table. I don't make cues to roll straight on a table, I make them to roll straight in a lathe. Some roll straight on a table and some don't. The taper system I use on my butts is not designed to roll straight on a pool table. Tell him to look up cuemakers that use a parabolic taper on the butt, most of them don't roll straight on the table, Southwest is a good example.

I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much.

If I thought I could fix it and make this guy happy, I would do it.



And finally, an email just sent from Richard to Zhi Hui...

Zhi Hui,

Cyrus is a good reputable dealer and would not cheat anyone, I would stake my reputation on Cyrus's honesty and integrity.

I know that cue pretty well, I just worked on it. Cyrus bought the cue used and sent it straight to me to check out and fix anything it needed. I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much. Cues are just wood and wood changes a little with atmospheric conditions.

I do not roll cues on a pool table to see if they are straight, I use 3 different tapers on the butt. I check cues in a lathe, center to center. The taper I use on my shafts not much of it hits the table, so rolling them is not a good test either. The only table roll test I use is to put the cue together, lay the shaft up on the rail about 4 to 6 inches from the joint, butt on the slate and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is out of line the tip will bobble. I checked that cue this way just before I shipped it to Cyrus, One shaft was perfect and the other shaft had a very small bobble, not enough to hurt anything.

If you are not happy with the cue, ship the whole cue to me and I will build you a new cue to replace it. It may take a little while but that is the best I can do. There is no way Cyrus or me is going to cheat anyone.

Let me know if you wish to send cue to me and I will e-mail address. Blue Book of Cues # 2 has wrong address but Blue Book # 3 is correct.

Thanks,
Richard Harris
Blue Grass Cues
Richard and I do not cheat anyone. During out negotiation with Zhi Hui, he got all information about Richard's comment for this cue.

But I am sorry that I can not let him happy about this cue. So, I decide to stop to talk anymore, because I can not meet what he want and can not betray my business rule and other respectful buyers.

My other deals with arguement and what I did...

1. Sold a bluegrass ebony cue to a reputable buyer, but the handle is wrap. I sent the cue to Richard and he confirmed. Then I send the money back to buyer.

2. Sold a carolina to a buyer, but 1 shaft is warped... I refund the cost of shaft back to buyer.

Finally, thanks for your patience to read all the text.

Cyrus
Click to expand...



:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :bow-down: :bow-down: :bow-down:

Good thing you showed up on time to explain the situation. Rep for you for being a stand up guy!




<M>
 
FeltMaster said:
Contact Richard Harris, he will probably let you know he doesn't sell cues with taper rolls, would most likely be happy to check it out for you.
email:
sales@poolcues.net
Good Luck,
Dom
Click to expand...
Taper roll is fictitous...but rolling a cue on a countertop won't tell you if it's truly straight...
 
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