Deal gone wrong with cyrustong

[Shawn Armstrong]

People need to get a freaking clue about the cues they buy before they go on a rant and accuse someone of screwing them.

Plain and simple - not everyone uses a straight taper on their butts of their cues. For a great example, see Schuler's test for straightness for their cues. They use a compound taper on their butts, so rolling the cue doesn't show straightness. There are two ways to check straightness without a lathe. Put the butt or shaft end up on the rail and roll the cue. Look for a wobble at the joint. The second test is the eyeball the cue put together like a rifle.

I have had nothing but great dealings with Cyrus, and for this guy to come and blast him without knowing the details regarding the cue he bought is wrong. Do your homework before you buy the cue. Richard's cues have a very aggressive taper in the forearm, and a more gradual taper in the handle and sleeve. Ted Harris makes his cues the same way. So did Ray Schuler. You can't roll these cues - it just doesn't work. Refer to The Pool Cue Book or check out http://www.schulercue.com/support/straightnesstest.html

 

[Cuedog]

This is really all that matters here.

8 thousandths certainly won't affect play or anything (I think most of us who have been around cues for any length of time know this), but if you are a cuemaker or a cue seller, you need to realize that when transacting a deal, you should be prepared to make sure that your customer is satisfied. Not all customers will have the same level or understanding of cues or standards....not by a long shot.

Short story....recently I had to have Gilbert make a new shaft for a custom order for a customer when one of the two shafts was out only 0.003". I could not even notice it with the naked eye, but when the customer sent the one shaft back to Andy, he measured it and saw the minute amount it was out. The remedy for the customer was that he wanted a new shaft made, which we had to do...that's good business. Whether or not it was truly out enough to hurt anything ot affect play is really irrelevant. That's for the customer to decide, not the seller. Anyone transacting business should be prepared for these type of issues.

Glad to hear this is working out well. All parties here are good folks.

TAP, TAP. TAP!!!

Well stated. This post is powerful! More so to sellers than it is to buyers because of the "on point" customer service policy displayed. In order to be a seller of ANYTHING, you must understand and focus on the diverse levels of service needed to succeed.

This is simply an observation of a quality post and is in no way a knock on Cyrus.

Gene

 

[manwon]

Thanks Richard harris for his comment and help. I will work out this issue with Richard. Also all thanks to fellow azer for their opinions.

I just brought a bluegrass cue from cyrustong (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=110664) and he described the cue to be straight. When the cue arrived, I discovered that the butt and two shafts have a roll out together and apart.

Please take a look at the video I have taken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Kcx62ft8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOktWMmwLQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySeNgQTn8Q8

I have raised my displease with the cue condition to cyrus and he say that richard harris told him that the cue is straight but have a taper roll on both butt and shafts.

I need help from the knowledgeable member in this forum to give me opinion on whether the cue is indeed "straight". Anyone can contact richard harris or ask him about this cue is kindly appreciated too.

What I am really unhappy about is the way cyrus handle this issue. I try to ask for a full refund but he decline the suggestion and now he wants to wash his hands off this matter.

First it is his fault in not mentioning that the cue has a roll out when I ask him about the cue straightness. (I expect a experienced cue dealer like himself to at least state the condition of a cue correctly. Furthermore he is a bluegrass cue dealer in taiwan.) I really do not want to blow up this issue but I think I should at least voice out the problem here so to at least let people know that dealing with a reputatable person is not always safe too. So now what do you guys think of this issue?

deleted for content

 

[manwon]

I am sorry that I have to face this issue with AZ and cause the trouble with all AZers.

About the deal for this issue, I had many discussion with Richard, showed him the video and talk to him about the cue condition and his comments on his side.

If we verify the cue is warped, I will refund the money and get the back cue. But Richard and I all agree the cue is perfect.

Here are some comments about the Richard.

I don't check cues rolling them on a pool table. I use 3 different tapers on the butt, plus the wrap or a finish build up can cause the butt to roll off on the table. Rolling shafts on the table isn't very good test either. The tip or finish can make them roll off a little.

The only table roll I use is to screw the cue together, put shaft up on the rail and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is off very much, the tip will bobble. And this cue was almost perfect with both shafts.

and then the email from Richard after I ask Richard if he can fix the butt.

Cyrus,

I don't think I can fix the butt to roll straight on the pool table. I don't make cues to roll straight on a table, I make them to roll straight in a lathe. Some roll straight on a table and some don't. The taper system I use on my butts is not designed to roll straight on a pool table. Tell him to look up cuemakers that use a parabolic taper on the butt, most of them don't roll straight on the table, Southwest is a good example.

I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much.

If I thought I could fix it and make this guy happy, I would do it.



And finally, an email just sent from Richard to Zhi Hui...

Zhi Hui,

Cyrus is a good reputable dealer and would not cheat anyone, I would stake my reputation on Cyrus's honesty and integrity.

I know that cue pretty well, I just worked on it. Cyrus bought the cue used and sent it straight to me to check out and fix anything it needed. I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much. Cues are just wood and wood changes a little with atmospheric conditions.

I do not roll cues on a pool table to see if they are straight, I use 3 different tapers on the butt. I check cues in a lathe, center to center. The taper I use on my shafts not much of it hits the table, so rolling them is not a good test either. The only table roll test I use is to put the cue together, lay the shaft up on the rail about 4 to 6 inches from the joint, butt on the slate and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is out of line the tip will bobble. I checked that cue this way just before I shipped it to Cyrus, One shaft was perfect and the other shaft had a very small bobble, not enough to hurt anything.

If you are not happy with the cue, ship the whole cue to me and I will build you a new cue to replace it. It may take a little while but that is the best I can do. There is no way Cyrus or me is going to cheat anyone.

Let me know if you wish to send cue to me and I will e-mail address. Blue Book of Cues # 2 has wrong address but Blue Book # 3 is correct.

Thanks,
Richard Harris
Blue Grass Cues
Richard and I do not cheat anyone. During out negotiation with Zhi Hui, he got all information about Richard's comment for this cue.

But I am sorry that I can not let him happy about this cue. So, I decide to stop to talk anymore, because I can not meet what he want and can not betray my business rule and other respectful buyers.

My other deals with arguement and what I did...

1. Sold a bluegrass ebony cue to a reputable buyer, but the handle is wrap. I sent the cue to Richard and he confirmed. Then I send the money back to buyer.

2. Sold a carolina to a buyer, but 1 shaft is warped... I refund the cost of shaft back to buyer.

Finally, thanks for your patience to read all the text.

Cyrus

Deleted for content

 

[newbieSG]

Case closed

I started this thread just to voice out my displease but now Richard harris has initiate to build me a replacement and I am sending this cue back to him.

It all turn out to be good and I hope that all the hurting/negative comments towards Cyrus or me can be stop. :smile:

Once again thanks for all previous comments from members in this forum and I really appreicate it.

 

[manwon]

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :bow-down: :bow-down: :bow-down:

Good thing you showed up on time to explain the situation. Rep for you for being a stand up guy!




<M>

Deleted for content

 

[MasterClass]

I saw the video but i dun really think that is not a great way to check for rolls using the floor.

Though some may disagree, the table would be a slightly better option. I know that my cue is straight. If i roll mine on a table and it rolls smoothly, you can use that as a bench mark and roll yours. Certainly the table cannot be even for me but not for yours.

The thing about taper roll. There are a few blue grass in Singapore. You can contact the owners, meet up and make comparison. Or there are also a few custom cue enthusiast in Singapore. Taper roll or obvious warp it should be quite easy to identify. If the roll is really that inconspicuous, then use the lathe see how the pin turns.

Try lisa method first though. Who knows maybe the same time tomorrow all your worries will be over! The air has been pretty wet of late. It has been raining quite a bit.

 

[manwon]

This is really all that matters here.

8 thousandths certainly won't affect play or anything (I think most of us who have been around cues for any length of time know this), but if you are a cuemaker or a cue seller, you need to realize that when transacting a deal, you should be prepared to make sure that your customer is satisfied. Not all customers will have the same level or understanding of cues or standards....not by a long shot.

Short story....recently I had to have Gilbert make a new shaft for a custom order for a customer when one of the two shafts was out only 0.003". I could not even notice it with the naked eye, but when the customer sent the one shaft back to Andy, he measured it and saw the minute amount it was out. The remedy for the customer was that he wanted a new shaft made, which we had to do...that's good business. Whether or not it was truly out enough to hurt anything ot affect play is really irrelevant. That's for the customer to decide, not the seller. Anyone transacting business should be prepared for these type of issues.

Glad to hear this is working out well. All parties here are good folks.

Deleted for being a Jack ASS!!!!!!!