Deal gone wrong with cyrustong

Pii said:
Please explain how the nose can go up and down because of a taper?

It seems to me that if the nose goes up and downit is it's not straight. If it was the taper the center would stay centered even with light showing under it.
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the nose is lifted off the table bc of just that. hes rolling it on a table. a cues true straightness is checked from the inside out. not outside in. thats why cuemakers dont chuck up wood and taper they put it between centers.

many factors can make a cue roll a bit off. wrap finish even unlevel slates. i dont roll a cue on the table either. i roll it on the rail it on both side rails and look at the middle. if the cue bobbles its warped. however if i want to know for sure i put it in the lathe.
 
cyrustong said:
If you are not happy with the cue, ship the whole cue to me and I will build you a new cue to replace it. It may take a little while but that is the best I can do. There is no way Cyrus or me is going to cheat anyone.
Cyrus
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Tap tap tap!!!:thumbup:

We need more cuemakers like this around that will stand behind what they make and will go WAY out of their way to make a customer happy, even 3yrs after it was made!

Kelly
 
it reminds of a youtube video i saw where the guy was rolling a Meucci on his concrete garage floor to test for straightness.classic.
 
masonh said:
it reminds of a youtube video i saw where the guy was rolling a Meucci on his concrete garage floor to test for straightness.classic.
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some ppl are amazing huh. i wouldnt put my cue on the floor in fear of scratching the finish all to hell
 
dave sutton said:
the nose is lifted off the table bc of just that. hes rolling it on a table. a cues true straightness is checked from the inside out. not outside in. thats why cuemakers dont chuck up wood and taper they put it between centers.

many factors can make a cue roll a bit off. wrap finish even unlevel slates. i dont roll a cue on the table either. i roll it on the rail it on both side rails and look at the middle. if the cue bobbles its warped. however if i want to know for sure i put it in the lathe.
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Thanks Dave the response from you and Richard have indeed taught me something.

I was a little amazed that Richard said a SW was a good example since my SW rolled true as could be on a table.
 
cyrustong said:
....I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything.....
If I thought I could fix it and make this guy happy, I would do it.
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This is really all that matters here.

8 thousandths certainly won't affect play or anything (I think most of us who have been around cues for any length of time know this), but if you are a cuemaker or a cue seller, you need to realize that when transacting a deal, you should be prepared to make sure that your customer is satisfied. Not all customers will have the same level or understanding of cues or standards....not by a long shot.

Short story....recently I had to have Gilbert make a new shaft for a custom order for a customer when one of the two shafts was out only 0.003". I could not even notice it with the naked eye, but when the customer sent the one shaft back to Andy, he measured it and saw the minute amount it was out. The remedy for the customer was that he wanted a new shaft made, which we had to do...that's good business. Whether or not it was truly out enough to hurt anything ot affect play is really irrelevant. That's for the customer to decide, not the seller. Anyone transacting business should be prepared for these type of issues.

Glad to hear this is working out well. All parties here are good folks.
 
cyrustong said:
I am sorry that I have to face this issue with AZ and cause the trouble with all AZers.

About the deal for this issue, I had many discussion with Richard, showed him the video and talk to him about the cue condition and his comments on his side.

If we verify the cue is warped, I will refund the money and get the back cue. But Richard and I all agree the cue is perfect.

Here are some comments about the Richard.

I don't check cues rolling them on a pool table. I use 3 different tapers on the butt, plus the wrap or a finish build up can cause the butt to roll off on the table. Rolling shafts on the table isn't very good test either. The tip or finish can make them roll off a little.

The only table roll I use is to screw the cue together, put shaft up on the rail and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is off very much, the tip will bobble. And this cue was almost perfect with both shafts.

and then the email from Richard after I ask Richard if he can fix the butt.

Cyrus,

I don't think I can fix the butt to roll straight on the pool table. I don't make cues to roll straight on a table, I make them to roll straight in a lathe. Some roll straight on a table and some don't. The taper system I use on my butts is not designed to roll straight on a pool table. Tell him to look up cuemakers that use a parabolic taper on the butt, most of them don't roll straight on the table, Southwest is a good example.

I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much.

If I thought I could fix it and make this guy happy, I would do it.



And finally, an email just sent from Richard to Zhi Hui...

Zhi Hui,

Cyrus is a good reputable dealer and would not cheat anyone, I would stake my reputation on Cyrus's honesty and integrity.

I know that cue pretty well, I just worked on it. Cyrus bought the cue used and sent it straight to me to check out and fix anything it needed. I checked that cue and I know for a fact it was only out .008 and that is not enough to hurt anything. Shipping to Taiwan and then shipping to Singapore may have effected it some, but that cue is 3 years old and shouldn't have changed much. Cues are just wood and wood changes a little with atmospheric conditions.

I do not roll cues on a pool table to see if they are straight, I use 3 different tapers on the butt. I check cues in a lathe, center to center. The taper I use on my shafts not much of it hits the table, so rolling them is not a good test either. The only table roll test I use is to put the cue together, lay the shaft up on the rail about 4 to 6 inches from the joint, butt on the slate and roll the cue and watch the tip. If the cue is out of line the tip will bobble. I checked that cue this way just before I shipped it to Cyrus, One shaft was perfect and the other shaft had a very small bobble, not enough to hurt anything.

If you are not happy with the cue, ship the whole cue to me and I will build you a new cue to replace it. It may take a little while but that is the best I can do. There is no way Cyrus or me is going to cheat anyone.

Let me know if you wish to send cue to me and I will e-mail address. Blue Book of Cues # 2 has wrong address but Blue Book # 3 is correct.

Thanks,
Richard Harris
Blue Grass Cues
Richard and I do not cheat anyone. During out negotiation with Zhi Hui, he got all information about Richard's comment for this cue.

But I am sorry that I can not let him happy about this cue. So, I decide to stop to talk anymore, because I can not meet what he want and can not betray my business rule and other respectful buyers.

My other deals with arguement and what I did...

1. Sold a bluegrass ebony cue to a reputable buyer, but the handle is wrap. I sent the cue to Richard and he confirmed. Then I send the money back to buyer.

2. Sold a carolina to a buyer, but 1 shaft is warped... I refund the cost of shaft back to buyer.

Finally, thanks for your patience to read all the text.

Cyrus
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Rep to you :thumbup:
 
newbieSG, may I make a suggestion?

It is very possible that the cue needs to acclimate to your region's temp and humidity differences.

You might try hanging the butt and shafts separately from a rubberband for a couple of days, to allow it to adjust. It just may take care of any 'issues' it may have.

I recently received a cue that within 24 hours of receiving it, moved. A cue maker suggested the above, and it worked like a charm! It certainly cannot hurt!

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
newbieSG, may I make a suggestion?

It is very possible that the cue needs to acclimate to your region's temp and humidity differences.

You might try hanging the butt and shafts separately from a rubberband for a couple of days, to allow it to adjust. It just may take care of any 'issues' it may have.

I recently received a cue that within 24 hours of receiving it, moved. A cue maker suggested the above, and it worked like a charm! It certainly cannot hurt!

Lisa
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Perfect suggestion.....wood moves, it is not rigid or fixed.
 
Even if the cue is warped, parabolic taper, or .008" off.

I think it is reasonable to get a refund.

It is just me, but I offer an unconditional money back if the buyer returns the cue in the same condition in which I sent out. If the buyer doesn't like my products for any reason, I offer a refund if a claim is within reason.

I guess the buyer didn't know about the "parabolic" taper, and many people use the table roll to determine straightness because they do not have expensive Cue Lathes.

I suggest that in every For Sale/ For Trade post that we as sellers, should describe the Straightness before we describe the specifications of the cue. Straight apart, together, parabolic taper, straight on a lathe, straight when rolled on Simonis cloth, on a Gold crown 4, on a granite counter top, ON CEMENT FLOOR~ lOL , etc.

* Straightness, Parabolic taper, Run outs, Wobble, etc.
* Then: 13mm shaft, nicks, dings, dents, clear coat, ETC.

Because honestly, a Warped cue, even the slightest is useless to me. What's the point of paying $Thousands of dollars$ when in the back of your head, you know it's not straight. Even with a parabolic taper, and it was suppose to be made that way, I would be very paranoid knowing that the cue is so.

Just my O.C.D. I guess.
 
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cueaddicts said:
Perfect suggestion.....wood moves, it is not rigid or fixed.
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A cue cannot properly acclimate while it is stored within a case. If it came from a wetter climate, that moisture will just be trapped inside the case, and could make the issue worse. If from a dryer climate, left in the case, it will continue to starve for needed moisture. Hanging in a normal climatized room is the only way to go.

I used a couple of those 'fat' rubber bands, and slip-knotted one onto the pin, and one onto the ferrule of the shaft. I then hung from an old hanger, counterbalancing the butt and shaft. I let mine hang in the one side of the archway in my living room for 3 days. Once I took them down, everything had straightened out nicely, and I have had zero issues with movement since.

I should note here that the cue I did this with was of older wood, so it was more likely to return to it's 'normal' state, given the opportunity. It came from a drier climate to a wetter climate...it just needed to adjust naturally. By hanging it suspended, it allowed gravity to do it's work as well.

Lisa
 
I have dealt with Cyrus and had no problems. I really believe this deal will get worked out. A parabolic taper can certainly give a weird effect.
 
ridewiththewind said:
A cue cannot properly acclimate while it is stored within a case. If it came from a wetter climate, that moisture will just be trapped inside the case, and could make the issue worse. If from a dryer climate, left in the case, it will continue to starve for needed moisture. Hanging in a normal climatized room is the only way to go.

I used a couple of those 'fat' rubber bands, and slip-knotted one onto the pin, and one onto the ferrule of the shaft. I then hung from an old hanger, counterbalancing the butt and shaft. I let mine hang in the one side of the archway in my living room for 3 days. Once I took them down, everything had straightened out nicely, and I have had zero issues with movement since.

I should note here that the cue I did this with was of older wood, so it was more likely to return to it's 'normal' state, given the opportunity. It came from a drier climate to a wetter climate...it just needed to adjust naturally. By hanging it suspended, it allowed gravity to do it's work as well.

Lisa
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Wow Lisa Simpson you're so smart. That is an awsome technique. Will you marry me?

Milhouse Vanhoutten.~:p
 
Duce said:
Wow Lisa Simpson you're so smart. That is an awsome technique. Will you marry me?

Milhouse Vanhoutten.~:p
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LoL....I cannot take the credit, but rather owe credit to Paul Allers for the awesome advice. :thumbup:

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
LoL....I cannot take the credit, but rather owe credit to Paul Allers for the awesome advice. :thumbup:

Lisa
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So u mean he should marry Paul Allers?:thumbup: :D :D :D :eek:
 
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