Debate Over Weight And Feel/ Please Chime In

[THE SILENCER]

tonight i had an argument/conversation/debate with my cue making friend. i told him the single most important thing about a cue is the balance. he and i had a half hour heated debate. it went like this, i said, a great cuemaker can make a 19 oz. cue, and you could weigh it on a scale and it will say 19 oz. but the cue could feel like 17.5 oz. in your hand. my friend chimed back to say NO! you could take 10 well made custom cues that weigh 19 oz. on a scale and they will all feel 19 oz. in your hand. i said, YOUR WRONG! some will feel like 19, some 18, some 21 oz. and some 17! why? i don't know why. i'm sure blud can shed light on this. but that was the debate. in 1999 i went to valley forge, and saw mike sigel. i said can i pick up this cue, he said sure, it felt nice and light like i like them. i said was is this 17 oz? he said, my cues feel real light, but that one there is 19oz! i couldn't beleive it!

 

[((VH))]

tonight i had an argument/conversation/debate with my cue making friend. i told him the single most important thing about a cue is the balance. he and i had a half hour heated debate. it went like this, i said, a great cuemaker can make a 19 oz. cue, and you could weigh it on a scale and it will say 19 oz. but the cue could feel like 17.5 oz. in your hand. my friend chimed back to say NO! you could take 10 well made custom cues that weigh 19 oz. on a scale and they will all feel 19 oz. in your hand. i said, YOUR WRONG! some will feel like 19, some 18, some 21 oz. and some 17! why? i don't know why. i'm sure blud can shed light on this. but that was the debate. in 1999 i went to valley forge, and saw mike sigel. i said can i pick up this cue, he said sure, it felt nice and light like i like them. i said was is this 17 oz? he said, my cues feel real light, but that one there is 19oz! i couldn't beleive it!

First, the weight is the numerical equivalent of the mass of the cue as gravity is exerted on it. Balance is the point where equilibrium is achieved on a given object.

I must admit, for a change I have to agree on you on this.

Your cuemaking friend seems to have things confused. Lighter cues could feel front heavy or rear due to the balance point whereas a heavier cue would feel just right if balanced properly. What the heck, we're just talking of ounces here... It depends largely on where the balance point of the cue is.

 

[Michael Webb]

Bernie:
I am going to the window to see if it's snowing out side. Holy sheep shit did some one just agree with you.

 

[Buddha Jones]

Bernie:
I am going to the window to see if it's snowing out side. Holy sheep shit did some one just agree with you.

It's 12:37 at night and I am laffing my ass off! - "Holy sheep shit!" -HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA You're killing me Mike!

 

[Jon]

Bernie:
I am going to the window to see if it's snowing out side. Holy sheep shit did some one just agree with you.

"Holy Sheep Shit"... roflmmfao... That just about took the cake Mike... It comes close but not better that when my sister told me that she "didn't give a 'good golly F#$%'" lol I will remember that one... "Holy Sheep Shit"...

Thanks,

Jon

Looks like we might get along real well in person

 

[drivermaker]

tonight i had an argument/conversation/debate with my cue making friend. i told him the single most important thing about a cue is the balance. he and i had a half hour heated debate. it went like this, i said, a great cuemaker can make a 19 oz. cue, and you could weigh it on a scale and it will say 19 oz. but the cue could feel like 17.5 oz. in your hand. my friend chimed back to say NO! you could take 10 well made custom cues that weigh 19 oz. on a scale and they will all feel 19 oz. in your hand. i said, YOUR WRONG! some will feel like 19, some 18, some 21 oz. and some 17! why? i don't know why. i'm sure blud can shed light on this. but that was the debate. in 1999 i went to valley forge, and saw mike sigel. i said can i pick up this cue, he said sure, it felt nice and light like i like them. i said was is this 17 oz? he said, my cues feel real light, but that one there is 19oz! i couldn't beleive it!

The lesson to be learned from this is to never consider having a cue made for yourself by your cue making friend. I have one cue in particular that weighs 20.15 oz. and everybody that I give it to without telling them the weight, swears that it weighs less than other cues a full ounce or so under. I also have a cue that's 18.75 which everyone thinks is close to 20. It's balance and weight distribution.

 

[THE SILENCER]

thanks, now i KNOW i'm correct and he's wrong. him and i always get into the same argument. he believes it's the actual "hit" that makes or breaks a cue. i believe it's "the way it feels in your hands, balance wise" before you even hit with it. he beleives, the balance is not important, to good playing! and that balance, should be (get this) an AFTERTHOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!! yes, cues "hit" differently, but for the most part, some will hit dull (viking) some will hit like a mack truck hitting a small car (cuetec) others will have a solid secure hit (Mali) etc. etc. but the actual hit can be changed, altered, by the tip! where the balance is the balance. this argument can go on forever. my bottom line feeling though, is this, the balance is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a cue.

 

[((VH))]

Bernie:
I am going to the window to see if it's snowing out side. Holy sheep shit did some one just agree with you.

Mike, the kid has a point... don't you agree?

 

[Michael Webb]

Yes, I do agree.

 

[Troy]

I can't agree that "the balance is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT aspect", but I will agree that it is ONE of the important aspects.

Troy

.....the balance is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a cue.

 

[Joseph Cues]

I can't agree that "the balance is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT aspect", but I will agree that it is ONE of the important aspects.

Troy

Same here. The sum of all parts makes a good cue.
Quality wood is the most important factor imo.
Not counting a good tip.

 

[bruin70]

the reason you(and your friend) will always get into this arguement is your insistance that there is ONE most important aspect of a cue. you must surely realize, for instance, that there are many many many players who won't suspect a subtle shift in balance, BUT will be very uncomfortable playing with a tip they're not used to. in fact, changing the tip is the one thing that everyone does first. it is the thing that's most noticeable when you hit the cb.

a 19oz cue will always carry the weight of a 19oz cue no matter where the balance is. it may be balanced perfectly and feel like an 18oz cue, but it will still carry a 19oz weight when it hits the cb.

i prefer a well balanced cue as a first priority because a poorly balanced cue feels like shit. however, today's cues are very sophisticated, and you won't find too many poorly balanced cues. so if i were to judge based on what i see everyone else's priority is,,,,it would be 1...tip/ferrule, 2...grip thickness, 3...shaft diameter(more with the pros because everyone else is satisfied with the standard 13mm), 4...weight

to say that balance is THE most important is untrue because everyone has different priorities.

 

[fxskater]

For once agree with you Silencer, the balance of a cue can easily make you think it is 2 ounces heavier/lighter than it actually is.

 

[TATE]

I had two cues made by the same maker. They were the same dimensions and each weighed 19 ounces. They even had similar balance points - within 1/2 inch of each other. One felt like an 18 ounce cue when it was stroked, and one felt like it was 20. This was not my imagination. I had these cues for several years and each time I picked them up, I marveled at the difference. The cue that felt heavier had stone inlays and an ebony forearm, the other one was just all ebony cored out.

I cannot explain why the big difference when the balance points were so similar. It seems to me that it's not only whether the weight is forward or back, but whether the weight is evenly distributed throughout the entire volume of the cue.

Chris

 

[Buddha Jones]

When I had the joint of my Jacoby replaced from the SS to a phenolic, the cue instantly became my new favorite, because it moved the balance point back towards the handle about 2-4 inches and no longer felt like I was holding a sledgehammer in my hand. And I don't mean Mike G.'s break cues.

 

[bruin70]

When I had the joint of my Jacoby replaced from the SS to a phenolic, the cue instantly became my new favorite, because it moved the balance point back towards the handle about 2-4 inches and no longer felt like I was holding a sledgehammer in my hand. And I don't mean Mike G.'s break cues.

i almost find that hard to believe, unless the repairer used a MASSIVE 3/8-10. and it would have to be huge because he would not only have to add enough weight to move the balance 2-4", but he would also have to make up for a lot of weight loss when he replaced the SS collar and pin.

i believe changing the weight bolt by an ounce moves the balance point .5" either way.

 

[Joseph Cues]

i almost find that hard to believe, unless the repairer used a MASSIVE 3/8-10. and it would have to be huge because he would not only have to add enough weight to move the balance 2-4", but he would also have to make up for a lot of weight loss when he replaced the SS collar and pin.

i believe changing the weight bolt by an ounce moves the balance point .5" either way.

Piloted steel collars are very heavy.
I don't think they had to replace the pin.

 

[THE SILENCER]

yeah, tate, true, i prefer a cue that is either light all the way thru, from tip to bumper, or heavy from tip to bumper. i hate cues, where you could feel hey, it's heavy here, and it's light here, and it's being weighted down over there, i hate that. i like a really light cue that feels light all the way thru, or a meaty 19oz. that feels evenly heavy all the way thru. weight and balance is a tricky, and personal thing, but i feel better now, after reading that most of you agree, especially after reading, that one guy had two cues made by the same maker, same weight and dimensions and one was without question heavier!

 

[TATE]

yeah, tate, true, i prefer a cue that is either light all the way thru, from tip to bumper, or heavy from tip to bumper. i hate cues, where you could feel hey, it's heavy here, and it's light here, and it's being weighted down over there, i hate that. i like a really light cue that feels light all the way thru, or a meaty 19oz. that feels evenly heavy all the way thru. weight and balance is a tricky, and personal thing, but i feel better now, after reading that most of you agree, especially after reading, that one guy had two cues made by the same maker, same weight and dimensions and one was without question heavier!

You would like my cue. It's a JossWest 60" cue at 18.5 ounces. It's well balanced for a long cue and it feels like air in your hands when you're stroking. It has the most neutral feel of any cue I've owned. It doesn't pull or push your grip hand. When you hit, the cue doesn't give at all. The only thing you feel is the weight of the cue ball. The tip goes straight through the ball with no noticeable vibration. By the way, quality post Bernie.

Chris

 

[bruin70]

Piloted steel collars are very heavy.
I don't think they had to replace the pin.

oh, i see. so you're saying he only replaced the collar.....so it was still piloted but with a phenolic collar. ok