Deflection difference?

tomatoshooter said:
  • With less CB deflection, you are less likely to miss short shots into big pockets if you don’t compensate your aim when using sidespin.
  • The CB will come off the cue tip closer to the aiming line when using sidespin. Therefore, not as much aim adjustment or compensation is required when using sidespin. For people who aren’t good at compensating for squirt, this can be very helpful. Also, with less compensation, there will be less error. For more info, see Diagram 2 and the surrounding discussion in “Squirt – Part V: low-squirt cues” (BD, December, 2007). A good analogy for squirt in pool is a crosswind in archery. Less is better for aiming over a wide range of distances. Another good analogy for greater error with larger adjustment is estimating a length to within a given accuracy. It is much easier to estimate an inch (or 2.5 cm) to within 1/8″ (3 mm) than it is to estimate a yard (meter) to within 1/8″ (3 mm)
source: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/

To be honest, I don't consider the lowest possible deflection to be an advantage 100% of the time. If the pivot length of the cue matches your bridge length, compensation for squirt is basically automatic. And there are shots where the spin induced throw and, to a lesser extent, the swerve, more than cancel out the squirt, requiring me to actually compensate the opposite direction. That's actually quite strange for me, typically, with inside spin, I will have to aim slightly fatter, but on some shots, I have to aim thinner. So it's entirely possible for someone to be more comfortable with varying the compensation instead of switching between compensation and exaggeration.

As much as the game of pool can seem like a scientific experiment, with precision balls, level table, quality felt, and that the game seem built for physics and geometry examples, there's still a feel for the game and what's happening, no different than a baseball pitcher curving a ball into the strike zone. He may not know the rpms of the ball or the angle it leaves his hand, but he's thrown enough that he does those things properly to deliver the ball over the plate.
Click to expand...

What about players that find it more difficult to play with low deflection shafts and actually miss more and mis-play position more often with them?

Lou Figueroa
 
hang-the-9 said:
Not sure what you mean by evidence. The less you need to adjust the more accurate you will be. It's pretty much a blanket statement that would apply to anything. This does not mean that every player will be able to make balls with spin the same way using the same shafts, which is pretty much the only thing that people go on and on about if they are against low deflection shafts. There is a clear benefit to them for many players, but not for those used to aiming by adjusting for their specific shafts that can't adjust to not doing it.
Click to expand...

I mean that pool is a game of constant adjustments.

You have to "adjust" to put follow on the ball vs draw. You have to adjust to put left english on the ball vs right. And you have to adjust to do anything and everything in between. (Throw in shooting all those with a little elevation.) The low deflection shafts still require adjustments -- just like 4.5 oz maple shafts with ivory ferrules -- all within pretty narrow parameters that the vast majority players cannot make or benefit from. Just go to any league night and watch all the players with $500 shafts who can't get out with less aka "easier" adjustments.

And yes, before anyone asks, I played for two years with low deflection shafts.

Lou Figueroa
 
tomatoshooter said:
  • With less CB deflection, you are less likely to miss short shots into big pockets if you don’t compensate your aim when using sidespin.
  • The CB will come off the cue tip closer to the aiming line when using sidespin. Therefore, not as much aim adjustment or compensation is required when using sidespin. For people who aren’t good at compensating for squirt, this can be very helpful. Also, with less compensation, there will be less error. For more info, see Diagram 2 and the surrounding discussion in “Squirt – Part V: low-squirt cues” (BD, December, 2007). A good analogy for squirt in pool is a crosswind in archery. Less is better for aiming over a wide range of distances. Another good analogy for greater error with larger adjustment is estimating a length to within a given accuracy. It is much easier to estimate an inch (or 2.5 cm) to within 1/8″ (3 mm) than it is to estimate a yard (meter) to within 1/8″ (3 mm)
Click to expand...

None of this matters. You can always learn each cue and learn how much or little you need to compensate.
Somehow the pro players of the past who shot with solid maple shafts seemed to do just fine and they didn't shoot with any less spin than the modern pros do.
Just learn the cue and then it's on.
Lower deflection shaft does not mean it's a "better shaft" like so many people keep rambling about.
 
lfigueroa said:
What about players that find it more difficult to play with low deflection shafts and actually miss more and mis-play position more often with them?
Click to expand...
That might apply to a player who's more familiar with a higher deflection shaft (until he gets familiar with lower deflection).

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:
L.S. Dennis said:
Dr. Dave once did a video on deflection difference between different shafts unfortunately he did not include these JFlower shafts in his experiment.
Click to expand...

For those interested, here is the video:


I didn't test many shafts, but I presented a simple procedure that anybody can easily do on their own to test and compare any shafts. Try it.
 
All Carbon shafts brands are going to deflect diffrently from each other. They all do something diffirent. Things that effect the deflection are ferrule length, Foam they use in the shaft effects the weight of the shaft, etc.
 
L.S. Dennis said:
There's been a lot of talk lately about the JFlowers inexpensive cues/carbon fiber shafts lately especially now since Earl signed on with JFlowers to produce the 'legends' model. My question is, is there any difference in amount of deflection between these shafts as apposed to some of the higher end and more expensive carbon fiber shafts ex Revo, Ignite etc.? Dr. Dave once did a video on deflection difference between different shafts unfortunately he did not include these JFlower shafts in his experiment. Also is there any difference in the 'quality of the carbon fiber between these shafts or is all carbon fiber basically the same thing?

Any thoughts...
Click to expand...
Someone once asked George Harrison what has he learned when coming back from India and his response was "All I know now is I know nothing!"
This is kind of how I'm beginning to feel about all this controversy on deflection vs non deflection shafts. As whether carbon fiber deflects less, is certain, but are they really going to make you win a tournament or not if you used them, probably not. Even Dr Dave says they have advantages and disadvantages depending on the player. My initial question as seen above was about the JFlowers carbon fiber as compared to some of the other more expensive brands and the discussion morphed into all kinds of other thingsl

As a side note, I'm sure if you could go back in time and ask Mosconi, or Caras what they thought about cue ball deflection they would have probably thought that you were out in the garden without your sun hat again!

Thanks for all the responses,
 
Last edited:
L.S. Dennis said:
My initial question as seen above was about the JFlowers carbon fiber as compared to some of the other more expensive brands and the discussion morphed into all kinds of other
Click to expand...

No need to be mean to all of us for helping.

No one has the time or money to buy all of these shafts to do a comparison. All you’re going to get is word of mouth. Most players don’t possess the skills to tell the difference in deflection of each of these shafts. Most guys go by wallet and what feels good. Unless you have one to tryout somewhere your going to be a guinea pig
 
Zerksies said:
No need to be mean to all of us for helping.

No one has the time or money to buy all of these shafts to do a comparison. All you’re going to get is word of mouth. Most players don’t possess the skills to tell the difference in deflection of each of these shafts. Most guys go by wallet and what feels good. Unless you have one to tryout somewhere your going to be a guinea pig
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, certainly didn't want to be 'mean' to anyone that's for sure. You're most likely correct about the guinea pig thing!
 
Someone had a jflowers cue at my pool room and I hit some balls with it and estimate it deflected about as much as my Z3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
MitchAlsup said:
You forgot 2 things::

A) treat it well

B) don't break it.
Click to expand...

Yes, dan't break it.

Years ago I had the opportunity to play Grady for a couple of days at his room in Lexington, SC. Grady, as always was a gracious host.

The second day I was there a fellow came in and apologized to Grady for something that had happened the night before. I'm not sure, but I think it involved the breakage of a custom cue. Anywhos, all is forgiven and forgotten and we're having a good laugh and the fellow starts telling the story of another "incident," relating that in this case, a player who was shooting poorly got to the point of holding his $1000 custom at arms length and said to it, "One more and that's it for you, Big Daddy."

Well, the line struck me as pretty funny and I just remembered it and was thinking of other memorable cue incidents.

Ferinstance, I was told by the old timers around here that a pretty well known St. Louis player (not Louie) use to have a reputation for breaking sticks (as did a contemporary of his -- a much lesser known player). They said that in one month, the rail birds counted nine cue sticks broken by the better known player and ten by the other fellow. The final act in this 30 days of carnage was the lesser known fellow losing a set for a healthy wager, calmly leaving the pool hall, emptying out his rather large cue case on the sidewalk, carefully lining up five cues (with shafts) on the curbstone and driving over them as he left the pool hall, never to be seen again.

We also use to have in this area a well known, rather large (physically and figuratively) fish, who liked to toss his pool cue around when defeat came his way. On one occasion, he threw his cue -- javelin style -- at a wall. A perfectly shaped cue-sized hole remains in the pool hall wall to this day. On another occasion, this player left the pool hall and, once again, javelin style, threw his cue onto the pool hall roof and drove off to nurse his rage.

More recently, we had another fellow who owned a pretty expensive Meucci. He dogged a ball and stuck the butt of the cue into a corner pocket. His reputation for cue destruction was pretty well known so several of the regulars yelled out, "Don't do it, I'll give you a hundred for the cue!" He just smiled at them and yanked sideways anyway, dismembering the cue.

I was in attendance the night this last fellow I mentioned took his frustrations out on another Meucci. To get the visual, image on this one you have to know that at this particular pool hall the bathrooms are in a small alcove a few feet away from the money table. This guy lost a set and calmly walked into the alcove towards the bathrooms. The next thing we knew there was the most incredible stream of epithets pouring out of the alcove, accompanied by the sounds of splintering wood from the Meucci being pounded against the floor. This went on for a fair period of time and, at one point, a part of the shaft came (dare I say it?) squirting out of the alcove, end-over-end, at about 50 mph and almost impaled one of the regulars sitting against the wall. When it was over, the fellow came out, deposited the several pieces the cue was now in into a trash can, smiled at the regulars and said, "I feel much better now."

Thankfully, it's a lot calmer around here nowadays :)

Lou Figueroa
 
L.S. Dennis said:
My initial question as seen above was about the JFlowers carbon fiber as compared to some of the other more expensive brands and the discussion morphed into all kinds of other thingsl
Click to expand...
What else am I supposed to do at work without threads like this...?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top