Deflection, Endmass and Shaft Design

drivermaker said:
Yeah...I guess you're right. I kinda remember some guy railing on here at one time because he didn't understand very much about aiming systems. That wasn't the first time it happened either. I guess that's what makes these forums so much fun.
Yes, I seem to remember you flailing uselessly at the keyboard attempting to rationalize some kind of tripe back then, just as you're doing now. Nice attempt to avoid the real issue, by the way. Why am I not surprised that you sidestep the issue and go straight to ad hominem attacks? Of course, that's how you started to degenerate the thread anyway - just business as usual with you, I guess....

Does this mean you aren't going to admit you're wrong about Bob and Ron's playing ability and that you don't understand the science, or are you just going to continue to sit in your anonymous bunker and throw sucker punches at them?

-djb
 
Fred Agnir said:
Wordsmithing and nitpicking is what you're resorting to? Are you asking rhetorically, or do you want standard deviations.?

Admit you're nothing but an instigator who can't stand science discussion.
Fred


What I'll admit to is that I'm prophetic when I told HittMan that he was now looking to create a firestorm here with a deflection debate and suggested how to find RSB and take it over there straight to the horse's mouths (and horses asses).

I knew damn well that sooner or later RSB geeks and dweebs would be over here in full regalia harping on what turns them on the most...a thesis on deflection with all of it's grandiose findings that mean jack shit to most PLAYERS (emphasis on Players) in the real world. Even Jewett said in one of his posts that a good part of it was theory. SJM summed it up very sucinctly in his post and should be reread.

However the crux of it for me was to instigate a move back to RSB where it belonged, not to turn AZ into RSB with all of it's deadhead pontificators that have single handedly turned that whole place into the dud of dud forums. Oh sure...you can blame that on FL, but he hasn't even been around or posted.
The place is B-O-R-I-N-G!! Anybody want to find out?? Just go there and see how fast you come running back here. Well, guess what...the same douche bags that blew it there are now here with all of their wisdom and insights. Fred "arrogant" Agnir, Bob Jewett, Ph.D, Ron Shepard, Ph.D. (in spirit, name, and thesis so far), and Mike Page, Ph.D. This is not to say that they're ALL here yet...there are more to come. (And you BETTER PRAY that it doesn't happen with the rest showing up)

So Fred...if you want to know EXACTLY what I said one more time which is my first post and the only part that matters, here it is:

"Then go to the sources directly on RSB. Ron Shepard and Bob Jewett are available to you 24/7 over there and will answer all questions. They revel in these kinds of discussions and everyones dicks will get harder than diamonds if you start a thread on it over there.

AZ members consist of players who have either learned to live with it or don't give a rats ass one way or another. It's just not that big a deal if you know how to play".

I could care less about Shepard, Jewett, or you Fred. I'm outta this thread and hope ALL of you go back to RSB and stay there. I gotta give you credit when it's due though...I like your column that you do in Inside Pool. Keep up the good work on that and highlighting the cuemakers.

In the mean time give me OHB, SJM, Willee, Rude Dog, VAP, LastTwo, Rodd, and all the guys who I missed that just make balls and know how to play or gamble.
 
DoomCue said:
Yes, I seem to remember you flailing uselessly at the keyboard attempting to rationalize some kind of tripe back then, just as you're doing now. Nice attempt to avoid the real issue, by the way. Why am I not surprised that you sidestep the issue and go straight to ad hominem attacks? Of course, that's how you started to degenerate the thread anyway - just business as usual with you, I guess....

-djb


Well, as I remember it, that was YOU flailing away uselessly at the keyboard regarding something you are clueless about and now you're looking to start something again. I guess you haven't gone nuts in a long time so it's time again. Describe how those urges come on...is it like a mad bomber, a stalker, a killer? What does it feel like to be taken over by inexplicable rage?

Just remember...only a few posts ago you started this with me...not the other way around. I didn't post to you.
 
What's that swishing sound? Oh, DM must be sidestepping again and lobbing another grenade from his anonymous bunker.... Can the science guys get back to the discussion at hand, or do you feel a need to try to monopolize EVERY thread?

BTW, when did you become a moderator of AZ? Didn't know Mike let you dictate what belongs here on AZ or RSB. As Fred suggested earlier, if you don't dig the science, that's cool, but you might stave off your impending heart attack a little longer if you stay out of discussions involving science.

So I guess this means no, you're not going to admit you're wrong, and yes, you're going to continue to sit in your anonymous bunker and throw sucker punches.

-djb
 
drivermaker said:
[...] Well, guess what...the same douche bags that blew it there are now here with all of their wisdom and insights. Fred "arrogant" Agnir, Bob Jewett, Ph.D, Ron Shepard, Ph.D. (in spirit, name, and thesis so far), and Mike Page, Ph.D. This is not to say that they're ALL here yet...there are more to come. (And you BETTER PRAY that it doesn't happen with the rest showing up)

Well I guess if I'm considered that offensive here, I'll just stay home. You can stop praying.

drivermaker said:
In the mean time give me OHB, SJM, Willee, Rude Dog, VAP, LastTwo, Rodd, and all the guys who I missed that just make balls and know how to play or gamble.
I'm sure they all play stronger than I do.

Why do people use made up names here?

mike page
fargo
 
DoomCue said:
What's that swishing sound?

BTW, when did you become a moderator of AZ?

So I guess this means no, you're not going to admit you're wrong, and yes, you're going to continue to sit in your anonymous bunker and throw sucker punches.

-djb


I think that swishing sound is from YOU. You do know that one of the definitions of the word "swish" in the dictionary is "of like or for effeminate male homosexuals". How easily and readily that word came rolling off your tongue.

So, I guess you're trying to moderate me??

I'm not throwing sucker punches at you...you went on the offense and I'm throwing counter-punches. (for now)

Let me reiterate...I didn't start posts to you...you started it with me. (God, that rage in you must be starting to boil like an egg in Death Valley in mid summer) You still haven't given a description as to what it feels like. It must be like a real high, huh?
 
drivermaker said:
I think that swishing sound is from YOU. You do know that one of the definitions of the word "swish" in the dictionary is "of like or for effeminate male homosexuals". How easily and readily that word came rolling off your tongue.

So, I guess you're trying to moderate me??

I'm not throwing sucker punches at you...you went on the offense and I'm throwing counter-punches. (for now)

Let me reiterate...I didn't start posts to you...you started it with me. (God, that rage in you must be starting to boil like an egg in Death Valley in mid summer) You still haven't given a description as to what it feels like. It must be like a real high, huh?

Me, rage? I'm not the one tossing insults like a 3rd grader playing dodgeball....

I wouldn't dare dream of moderating you - I like watching you continue to dig bottomless holes from which not only can you not find your way out, but you don't even bother to try because you can't understand how the hole was dug in the first place. I thought you were done with this thread - or can you not control yourself to that extent? Hmm, 2000 posts, lemme guess what the answer to that is....

You've done a wonderful job of attempting to obfuscate the issue, which has absolutely nothing to do with your paranoid delusion that somehow "I'm out to get you" and everything to do with your inability to admit you're wrong.

And BTW, no, I didn't know that alternative definition of "swish" - guess we know where you're at....

Keep sucker punching, keep hiding in anonymity, keep digging those holes....

-djb <--I'll keep egging you on for laughs all day long, it's too easy
 
drivermaker said:
If you're going to look at those, don't forget to include these:
www.meuccicues.com
www.meuccicues.com/blackdot-chart.htm

...they state that CB speed or applied force has no change on the amount of deflection. How many real players are going to take THAT as gospel and go along with it?

Colin Colenso, a poster here (where has he been) came up with additional factors for deflection that don't necessarily include end mass garbage. One, that I recall, was very simply different factors that have to do with the tip, such as glazing... and you can DEFINITELY get CB squirt just from that. How do you measure it? How do you even know that all tips are prepped exactly the same way when testing to not affect CB movement? The answer is...you don't. Go back into the archives and see if you can find Colins threads, they'll provide additional insights.

Thanks...I'll get to this to. THere is going to have to be a short break in the action (at some point) for me to catch up with the new information. I still have not gotten the participation I was hoping for.
 
Fred Agnir said:
There needs to be a filter such that when someone like yourself asks a decent question that could use an answer, that only responses that attempt to answer your question are shown for you.
I think I've added to the answer. Maybe not. I tend to go with the theory that the effective endmass is directly related to the speed of the transverse wave and how much mass is involved during the contact time. The idea of contact time is a whole different discussion and IMO, shouldn't be used to further the discussion on effective endmass.
Does stiffness affect the speed of the transverse wave? Probably. If you drilled the first six inches of a shaft and filled it with a stiffer material that didn't add any weight, would the squirt be more or less? I don't know. The speed of the transverse wave is probably more to do with the natural frequency of the material, so if the filler material has a different natural frequency, then there would be a difference. But, that difference may not have anything to do with stiffness per sé, but with the material selection.
So, in further muck, if there was some magic way to keep the mass the same, but change stiffness, then you'd be able to test it.
Fred

Good...we're past the introduction and we 're beginning to look at the same area. See post #101 which deals with a slightly different iteration of your point here. I agree about contact time it'll just muddy the water.
I wonder about the speed of the transverse wave in stiffer materials? This is a good question that begs answer...yet another good point.
The question about a stiffer filler is a good one...
Agreed on the material selection...
I don't consider material changes magic.

But my question hasn't changed or been addressed...specifically I am not interested in discussinging the F=-MA equation but we have been much too quick to substitute the mass and "endmass" for "effective mass". Take a look as his definition...he knew he was making a transformation and supplied us with his definition...this is where my question lies...in further analysis, finite element analysis, if you will, of the combined structure. My position rises from a gut instinct that the weight/mass of the last few inches is not nearly as important as several other easily manipulated factors that may affect this resistance to sideways motion from which Mr. Sheldon derives his definiton of "effective mass" (in an attempt to fit the problem into known, proven methods).

Thanks for sticking with it. If we can define the issue then we can try to develop an experiment to prove or disprove it's value...and in the end, agree.

Andy
 
merylane said:
bobs tests?
one thing about his tests are thet they are measuring the throw on an object ball, and some how talks about deflection :confused:
why doesnt he measure were the cueball is going? bogus?

Now this is interestng...I have always considered the throw and squirt on the object ball and the resultant path of the cueball intrinsically related...different sides of the coin, so to speak...please explain.
 
DoomCue said:
Me, rage?

-djb <--I'll keep egging you on for laughs all day long, it's too easy


"ME RAGE"...LMFAO. How sweet and innocent...I love it. What a psycho MF.
Let me remind you ONE MORE TIME...YOU came on this thread and started the crap with me...not the other way around. You've been carrying this rage around with you for a lonnnngggg time to. YOU'RE A SICK GUY.

I don't think you know how to laugh, other than your own sordid heinous laugh to yourself that nobody hears other than you in your padded cell.
We've had tons of threads on here with joking around, pulling each other's leg, fun woofing, etc., and you NEVER chime in. Why? Because you have NO sense of humor. Your posts on everything are all, well....quite boring.

Can ANYONE on AZ remember a fun post or recall Doomclueless joking with you? Please post if I haven't remembered correctly. Refresh my memory. (I expect NO, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH responses on that one because there aren't any)

LS77...this is for you. You know the term "I own you"...well, I OWN THIS GUY. I am into his head SOOOOOOOoooooo bad, it's mind boggling. It's the same as being into someone's head at the table...once you're there, you own him and they'll never win...even if they're a better player. If this wasn't true, he wouldn't have come on here attacking me out of the clear blue like he did.
He has a history, a long one and he can't help himself anymore.

I know...I know...Drivermaker is just a big mouth himself making this shit up. Hey, this thread is climbing up on 2000 views and it's not because of the information on it, because there isn't much. It's for the firestorm, the drama, the flaming, and the potential for disaster. So for all of you that are into the excitement and the characters behind the scenes, PM me and request a copy of some PM's that psycho Doomcue sent to me a while back and I'll be more than happy to forward them. You'll soon see that I ain't makin' this stuff up.
There are a select few on here that have been privy to it, so everybody else might as well be. Trust me...this guy is sick. Well you don't have to trust me, just PM.

Watch his obsession and rage grow...he's hooked and owned, he can't help himself from posting and coming at me.
 
Keep digging drivelmaker....

Guess your ad hominem attacks really mean you're not going to admit you're wrong.

-djb
 
Last edited:
DoomCue said:
Keep digging drivelmaker....

Guess your ad hominem attacks really mean you're not going to admit you're wrong.

-djb
Is that all you got???

:D:D:D

(stir, stir, stir)
 
Stir, Stir, Stir...
:D:D:D
Stir, Stir, Stir...
DM, you've got PM (well here in a minute anyway...)
 
drivermaker said:
So for all of you that are into the excitement and the characters behind the scenes, PM me and request a copy of some PM's that psycho Doomcue sent to me a while back and I'll be more than happy to forward them. You'll soon see that I ain't makin' this stuff up.
There are a select few on here that have been privy to it, so everybody else might as well be. Trust me...this guy is sick. Well you don't have to trust me, just PM.

The thing that amazes me is the control and verbiage used in all of his posts but if any of you read the PM that Drivermaker is talking about you'll see a whole new side to DoomCue.
Why not just be yourself for everyone to see?
Someone posted in another thread that you shouldn't use your own name on the forums because there are some sick fu*ks out there.
Well, I've just added DoomCue to that list and understand now why that person wrote what he wrote.

Koop
 
Amen Koop,

You should take that avatar picture and hand it over to the local police :D

Jon ~~has seen the PM's in question, in the beginning...
 
DoomCue said:
Made a promise I'm gonna keep, that's all. Stir all you want.

-djb


Oh oh, Jon...that sounds like a veiled threat to me. I just don't know if it includes you also and maybe even DD...who knows with this guy.

I can see him now...just like Elmer Fudd...loading up his hunting rifle and saying, "you wittle wabbit...I'm gonna get you". Or maybe it's like Yosemite Sam with all of his pistols firing shots into the air. (he does have a 9mm, you know) :eek:

C'mon Doomcue...we're all havin' a little fun. Show us this sense of humor you seemingly have in your own mind and join in the merriment. Express yourself humorously...we're all waiting.

And also remember....I OWN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROTFLMFAO
 
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