Billy_Bob said:
So far - Billy_bob is the only one with a SOLID statement of facts. Nice post.
Deflection, Endmass and Shaft Design
- Thread starter HittMan
- Start date
So far - Billy_bob is the only one with a SOLID statement of facts. Nice post.
Purdman
Banned
drivermaker said:No Donald...you aren't confusin' me and I knew damn well you didn't own a Predator shaft. Remember, we came up around the same time. If you recall, this is the way it went: you set up a shot and shoot it with some english and you miss. You say, "this piece of shit warped house cue...think I'll go find another one".
So you set up the shot again and you shoot with english and miss, so you say, "this piece of shit house cue is even worse...it has a flat tip that looks like a mushroom....think I'll go find another one".
So you set up the shot again and shoot with english and miss, so you say, "what the f*#k is goin' on here. I know I ain't that bad. HEY JIMMY... JIMMY ONE NUT...come here and help me with this shot, I keep missin'." So Jimmy comes over who is dumber than dog shit and quit school in the 10th grade but can shoot lights out pool and he says, "No wonder you keep missin' the shot you stupid little f*#k...when you put right english on it, the CB shoots to the left as soon as you hit it. When you put left english on, it shoots to the right. Aim a little more outside and you'll figure out how much".
And that's pretty much how it went, right? Problem solved.
BTW...if you want to know how the scientists shoot, I already told you. LIKE SHIT!! One scientist just keeps covering up for the other ones, and the other ones keep covering up the whole scam and that's the way that one goes too. All they want to do is keep writing more and more thesis to cover up the whole thing and get everyone to think otherwise.
No DM that ain't how it went. That was the four and five rail bank shots. I figured out SQUIRT on my own. I was a curious little juvinile delinquent.
Purdman
you know whats funny?????
that while everyone on here is in a heated debate about this shit, there's a 9 year old kid somewhere that couldn't give a rats ass about how much the cue ball squirts thats running rack after rack after rack............
point being............just f&$king play the game people, and figure it out.
VAP
that while everyone on here is in a heated debate about this shit, there's a 9 year old kid somewhere that couldn't give a rats ass about how much the cue ball squirts thats running rack after rack after rack............
point being............just f&$king play the game people, and figure it out.
VAP
ScottR said:I sure played better when I was younger, didn't know shit and just figured out how to get the balls in the holes.
some of the best advice i've ever had was from a guy in his 60's that plays pretty strong now, but used to make a living playing way back in the day.......he took a liking to me when i first started playing(after he robbed me and we started talking, he still gives me advice to this day)
i asked him.........."what do you think about when you're at the table" and you know what he said???? he looked at me and said "nothing, the secret is to get good enough where you don't have to think"
ever since then, i've never really gotten into the scientific how or why........even when i get lessons, i don't ever ask the technical stuff........all i worry about is what the ball does.......and if it does the same thing time after time, thats all i need to know.
i try to keep the same mentality as a child(i know i know
) and just play, and learn what the balls do.............not sit around and wonder why they do, or complain about how much the squirt is...............just play.VAP
tap, tap, tapvapoolplayer said:some of the best advice i've ever had was from a guy in his 60's that plays pretty strong now, but used to make a living playing way back in the day.......he took a liking to me when i first started playing(after he robbed me and we started talking, he still gives me advice to this day)
i asked him.........."what do you think about when you're at the table" and you know what he said???? he looked at me and said "nothing, the secret is to get good enough where you don't have to think"
ever since then, i've never really gotten into the scientific how or why........even when i get lessons, i don't ever ask the technical stuff........all i worry about is what the ball does.......and if it does the same thing time after time, thats all i need to know.
i try to keep the same mentality as a child(i know i know
VAP
I'm really jealous of your hours of play in your signature. You, you . . . .
ScottR said:tap, tap, tap
I'm really jealous of your hours of play in your signature. You, you . . . .
tell you what............i'll give you the hours i play.........if you take the debt i'm in away.........LMAO
if i didn't play so much, and got a real job, that payed a decent amount, i would be in a MUCH MUCH MUCH better financial situation.........but hey......gotta make a sacrifice somewhere, to do what you love..........and hope in the long run it pays off.
VAP
drivermaker
Banned
vapoolplayer said:
They CAN'T figure it out OR make the balls. That's why intellectualizing the game takes the place of it. If you're going to look dumb missing balls all the time, you might as well sound smart by taking the thought processes out to their finite boundries with all of the other loons. Do you know why they don't use backhand english? Because it works...they just have trouble explaining it and it infuriates them, just like Hal's systems. They have more fun trying to DISPROVE everything on the blackboard. You can get high from eraser dust, you know.
Blanket Thanks To All Who Contribute
Somehow there seemd to be a misunderstanding...I am not argueing over whether squirt exists or what causes it. I am asking if we haven't missed something in the calculation of endmass. I have tried to answer the pertinent posts with clarity and I think now the number of posts and signal to noise ratio has gotten to the point it requires diligence (reading and separating) to appreciate the question. Like I said I am new here and not being a poster much of anywhere had not seen this happen before.
Anyway, thanks for the post...I'm beginning to understand how a Junior League member feel when they send out thank you notes.
So...in an effort to relieve myself (no pun intended) of the duty of niceties...I will simply post this blanket thank you to all who contribute or attempt to contribute to my understanding of this thread.
Donald A. Purdy said:
Somehow there seemd to be a misunderstanding...I am not argueing over whether squirt exists or what causes it. I am asking if we haven't missed something in the calculation of endmass. I have tried to answer the pertinent posts with clarity and I think now the number of posts and signal to noise ratio has gotten to the point it requires diligence (reading and separating) to appreciate the question. Like I said I am new here and not being a poster much of anywhere had not seen this happen before.
Anyway, thanks for the post...I'm beginning to understand how a Junior League member feel when they send out thank you notes.
So...in an effort to relieve myself (no pun intended) of the duty of niceties...I will simply post this blanket thank you to all who contribute or attempt to contribute to my understanding of this thread.
drivermaker
Banned
HittMan said:
If you're going to look at those, don't forget to include these:
www.meuccicues.com
www.meuccicues.com/blackdot-chart.htm
Why should those earlier posted sites hold any more or less credibility than Meucci's? There's no end mass reduction in his shaft, however there is a different ferrule. Are his test results bogus? Those that hate Meucci will say yes.
I said it before and I'll say it again...fuck Bob Jewett and fuck Ron Shepard.
In Ron Shepards ultimate thesis on deflection, along with Jewetts sign-of-the cross and blessings with holy water, they state that CB speed or applied force has no change on the amount of deflection. How many real players are going to take THAT as gospel and go along with it? Are you kidding me?! These two are whackos to the nth degree.
Colin Colenso, a poster here (where has he been) came up with additional factors for deflection that the almighty team of Shepard and Jewett didn't discuss in their paper that have very sound explanations that don't necessarily include end mass garbage. One, that I recall, was very simply different factors that have to do with the tip, such as glazing. I don't know about you and how well you shoot, but if you play enough with these different layered tips, although some guys don't like to scuff them once they're shaped, those SOB's get hard and slick as hell from glazing and you can DEFINITELY get CB squirt just from that. How do you measure it? How do you even know that all tips are prepped exactly the same way when testing to not affect CB movement? The answer is...you don't. Go back into the archives and see if you can find Colins threads, they'll provide additional insights.
drivermaker
Banned
Bob Jewett said:
Well, I could never figure out why anybody read your ridiculous articles in BD either, so I guess that makes us even.
Isn't it amazing how this high run of 102 suddenly came out of nowhere to match his other lie on a different forum. Nice cover up Bob...you're the greatest!!
drivermaker said:
i agree here, it will deflect some..........but wouldn't that come under the category of a miscue?
seems like there is an endless amount of shit that could be factored in here. which is precisely why i really don't care too much about the scientific mumbo jumbo.
VAP
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
HittMan said:
There needs to be a filter such that when someone like yourself asks a decent question that could use an answer, that only responses that attempt to answer your question are shown for you.
I think I've added to the answer. Maybe not. I tend to go with the theory that the effective endmass is directly related to the speed of the transverse wave and how much mass is involved during the contact time. The idea of contact time is a whole different discussion and IMO, shouldn't be used to further the discussion on effective endmass.
Does stiffness affect the speed of the transverse wave? Probably. If you drilled the first six inches of a shaft and filled it with a stiffer material that didn't add any weight, would the squirt be more or less? I don't know. The speed of the transverse wave is probably more to do with the natural frequency of the material, so if the filler material has a different natural frequency, then there would be a difference. But, that difference may not have anything to do with stiffness per sé, but with the material selection.
So, in further muck, if there was some magic way to keep the mass the same, but change stiffness, then you'd be able to test it.
Fred
drivermaker said:They CAN'T figure it out OR make the balls. That's why intellectualizing the game takes the place of it. If you're going to look dumb missing balls all the time, you might as well sound smart by taking the thought processes out to their finite boundries with all of the other loons. Do you know why they don't use backhand english? Because it works...they just have trouble explaining it and it infuriates them, just like Hal's systems. They have more fun trying to DISPROVE everything on the blackboard. You can get high from eraser dust, you know.
Drivermaker, I've gotta jump in here...
Who the hell is "they?"
And how do you know for sure that "they" all can't shoot balls?---everyONE of them?
Or some of them?
And so what? Do you own them, or what?
Some of "them" have shown "they" can shoot balls, so what does that mean? It means that "they can't shoot" is an irrational generalization foisted on specific individuals who may or may not fit the "they" category.
Some players here love the science. Some love the gamble. Some love the social aspects. Some love winning. Some love the competition. Some love talking about it. Some love their cues. Some love their egos. Some love stirring up trouble.
And in all of the above groups, some are fine players, some are not.
Last night in league, a teammate was using my Predator. He was shooting the 8 downtown and I thought to myself, "He's gonna scratch cross side because he doesn't understand that the Predator doesn't squirt as far as a normal cue so the reflection angle will be shorter than he thinks off the side rail. Sure enough, made the 8 and put the cueball right in the side for a loss.
I tried to explain why this happened, but my teammates didn't want to know the science behind the scratch. They interrupted me constantly and IRRATIONALLY speculated on his attitude, etc. without even considering for a second what really happened on the table. They didn't want the science, they already "knew" why he missed. AND IT COST THEM last night, before last night, and it will cost them later.
Science alone cannot make one a great player, but it can make one a better player. Therefore...?
A happy shot requires more than feel, science, or whatever; it requires integration of many of those things, each holding specific value. Dismiss any and suffer the consequences.
Jeff Livingston
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
Thanks Bob. I knew it was 102, but I couldn't find it.Bob Jewett said:
Mr. Drivermaker, are you ready to eat crow? Do you have an answer as to what skill level does someone have to demonstrate to not be labeled as "can't play a lick"?
Fred <~~~ with bated breath
drivermaker
Banned
vapoolplayer said:
No, it won't be a miscue. It'll be a MISSED shot that you can't figure out why the hell you missed until it happens a couple of times and you just have to scuff it. You'll see the difference immediately.
drivermaker
Banned
Fred Agnir said:
No Fred...I asked you first. You answer mine, then I'll answer yours.
(If you haven't noticed Fred is another scientific type that covers for his buddies like Uncle Bob)
Hey Fred...I clearly remember when you got sucked into the Predator claims after initially being a disbeliever. Lke everyone else, once you got yours you vehemently defended how good it was and turned your game around.
Yeah...it turned your game around all right...once you opened your eyes and started looking at reality, you came to find out that it turned your game to shit over the long haul. Remember those days Fred?? You're not getting so old that the memory is starting to fade, is it? Where's your Predator now, Fred??