Deflection question

[PGHteacher]

Mark...Just FYI...NOBODY on Earth can control the CB. All we are able to control is the cuestick. With that we are able to control our ASS (Angle/level cue; Speed; and Spin). You should know this...I believe you do.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Nobody on earth can control the cue stick. We can only control our arms. Nobody on earth can control their arms. We can only control our conscious thoughts to move our arms. Nobody on earth can control their conscious thoughts....
Yeeikes! Did I just present an argument for pre-determinism?

I kind of like this saying and I think I will use it, to me it is another way of saying “don’t wrestle with the CB believe it or not it will win” I have had students that do this (if you know what I mean). I may be wrong but I didn’t take this literally but more as a “way to think about it that will ground you”. Both of you say so much good stuff btw, and I really pay particular attention to your posts more so than some others.

 

[FranCrimi]

I kind of like this saying and I think I will use it, to me it is another way of saying “don’t wrestle with the CB believe it or not it will win” I have had students that do this (if you know what I mean). I may be wrong but I didn’t take this literally but more as a “way to think about it that will ground you”. Both of you say so much good stuff btw, and I really pay particular attention to your posts more so than some others.

Thanks but I'm leery of anonymous posters, especially teachers. I respect Scott and others who post under their real names who are willing to be accountable for their opinions.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I know RonV has a nice inside english "method." He just 90/90 without the pivot or 90/half without the pivot. I use a laminated Lambros and for a lot of shots, it works really well.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I didn't completely understand your question above, but.... It's important to know that different people see shots differently. Certainly different cues behave differently. Also, you will find that if you play on new versus old cloth, the aim for side spin shots will change much as the aim for side spin shots changes as you shoot harder. There is no single "system" that takes all of these things into account.

I'm not an instructor but my 45 yrs. exp. agrees.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Understanding how throw and squirt(most people call it deflection) work in conjunction with each other will help you improve your game immensely. I don't know what your level of understanding is of these 2 phenomenon are so I will briefly touch on how they work. Throw works when you use english at slower speeds which makes the object ball differentiate from the line of aim in the opposite direction of the applied english. If you use left english it will make the object ball move offline to the right of the object ball line of aim to the pocket. The more tips of english and the softer you shoot the more offline the object ball will go.

At some point as you increase your stroke speed using english the cue ball itself will squirt(deflect) offline from the line of aim from the cue ball to the object ball. If you use left english and the cue speed is sufficient the cue ball will impact the object ball to the right of point that you are aiming at. The more tips of english and the harder the stroke speed the more the cue ball will squirt.

A key point to understand is that throw only works at very soft to soft speeds while squirt(depending on the cue) doesn't take effect until soft to soft plus and higher speeds. With cues that produce high squirt the speed ranges between throw and squirt overlap significantly making the aiming process much more difficult than it needs to be. This is where the beauty of the Predator(and other low deflection) shafts come in as they produce far less squirt than other shafts that are not designed to produce low squirt/deflection. With a low squirt shaft there is a small but significant range of cue speeds where you don't have to correct for throw or squirt/deflection allowing you to aim at the object ball contact point without making any adjustments. For my cue which has a Predator 314-2 shaft this speed range is just under soft to slightly under medium. As long as I keep to this speed range with a level cue and use the same amount(tips) of english I never have to adjust my aim for throw or squirt. The more tips of english you use the smaller the speed range will be. The level cue is necessary so you don't have to adjust your aim for swerve. On a decent table the speed range of soft to medium is more than enough to move the cue ball around the table on more than 90% of the shots you are faced with.

Some may say that I don't know what I'm talking about and this technique can't possibly work but I have been using it for years and it is what gives me an edge over my competition. I'ts a simple enough to test this technique to see if it works. Using a low deflection shaft simply set up a cut shot, apply 1/2 to 1 tip of left english with a soft stroke and shoot to pocket the ball without any adjustments to aim. If the object ball goes to the right of the intended aim point(pocket) indicating that throw is in effect very slightly increase your stroke speed until the ball goes into the pocket. This is the low end of the speed range to pocket the ball using english without making an adjustment. Next keep very slightly increasing your stroke speed until the object ball misses to the left of the intended point of aim indicating squirt has taken effect. The last speed increase where you pocketed the ball will be the upper cue speed limit that you can use without an adjustment with the amount of english used. I prefer to use 1/2 tip or less english to maximize the speed range that I can use. You do need good cue speed control to get the full benefit of this technique. It is also important to note that your soft might be different than mine but if you experiment enough you will find the correct speed range for you. This can also work to a limited degree for high squirt cues but the speed range will be much smaller making it a much less useful tool.

I'm not an instuctor but my 45 yrs. of exp. agrees with U & I think you explained it well. I'm having a little trouble adapting to the LD shaft but I've used alot of max. english in the past. I think your 1/2 to 1 tip might make the tranfer to the LD more consistant til I really get the feel for it. I'm glad I read this. I should have thought of it myself. BUT... I didn't. Thanks for taking the time to do a 'full' explanation.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I don't understand why throw is reduced by having a Predator shaft? I've not found that to be the case, although I haven't played with many traditional shafts, so can't be certain. Throw is spin transference, isn't it? I would've thought throw is affected more by the newness and quality of the cloth, and the shininess of the balls, than the cue the CB was struck with.

One other thing: do LD shafts reduce the amount of swerve, in addition to the amount of deflection?

I'm not an instructor but I'll try to employ my 45 yrs. of shooting english to try to help you out. 1st. keep in mind, as stated in the explanation that speed affects 'throw'. But that's not really your question. So, the difference as I see it thru my experience with both reg. & LD is this. Remembering that the same force of hit causes the 2 different shafts to effect the cue ball differently BUT lets say all things are EQUAL & we're past that point of different force of hit needed. So, at a certain equal force of hit the reg. shaft will deflect less & cause more cue ball squirt than the LD shaft. SO, the balls start out on different angles relative to the stroke. If the spin is the same then they each will spin back & hit the object ball at a different point on the object ball. Hence the object ball would take off on a different angle. Let's say you're shoot a long thin cut to the left, say near the middle of the table near the foot rail and you're shooting from near the head rail at near mid table.. If you shoot it with inside english (cut to the left with left english) the reg. shaft can send the cue ball farther to the right & if hit with appropriate speed can spin the ball back to the left & essentially hit the object ball farther on the right side in essense cuttting it more than is cabable of doing with the LD shaft. It is like a long mini masse. I think that might be what was meant. As for one shaft throwing the ball more or less I don't understand that. Side spin is side spin. They must have been talking about angle of hit simular to what I explained. I hope this helps. PM me if you have any specific questions.