Delrin buttcap.
- Thread starter ATH
- Start date
Delrin is formulated to resist glue...you have to hold it on the cue with the weight bolt...I'm not sure why it isn't as popular anymore...
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They are best if they are threaded on and then use a butt screw to hold it. They also don't take finish and you have to leave a small shoulder for the finish to flow up the cap and then sand and buff it level. This is just my opinion but I don't think a cue should have any parts other the maybe the bumper and the screw that can't be completely incorporated into one complete unit when finished.ATH said:
I don't like parts that are held on with a bolt such as a Delrin Butt cap. I think the use of the phenolics are an advancement in cue making where the finished cue in one solid unit from joint to butt cap. Again this is just my opinion, that's not to say the use of Delrin if done right so it can't come loose is a bad thing. It may have a little tradition to it also for some cue makers.
macguy said:
awe #!%$&# why not just finnish over everything tip to bumper .... screw too
hell the lizard wrap too..... then you should really like it.
yeah who likes mechanicle bonds anyway, just glue everything.
oh and dont forget how much easier it would be.
dont forget with todays glues nothing else matters.
merylane said:
Your comments make no sense other then to disagree. I provided my reasoning for my opinion could you please provide yours? You can count on your fingers may only need one hand, the cue makers who use Delrin as their standard butt cap..
I also don't find it harder to install a Delrin butt cap if that was what you were implying, it is easier. It cuts like butter and just wet sand along with the finish and polish and it come out nice. A black phenolic cap on the other hand requires progressive sanding to get all the voids out and have it come out a nice even black color not all splotchy, as well as if it is next to a light colored wood such as Birdseye maple the dust can migrate into the light wood making a mess of the job.
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http://woodcraft.com/images/Family/web792.jpgmacguy said:
Mac, why do you assume a weight bolt is needed to hold the Delrin buttcap?
Hell, you can use that threading kit. Thread the inside and the tenon and epoxy it. The epoxy in the thread fills the gap and that Delrin ain't going nowhere. Much sturdier than a press fitted phenolic.
Delrin buttcap requires more work than phenolic.
You have to have it a little oversized than the sleeve then you wet sand it level with the sleeve.
Phenolic? Same size, superglue the pits , find sand and spray.
Delrin does not scratch and is virtually indestructible and looks great.
The white one polishes easily but the black one takes a lot more work.
It appeals to a ton of makers. Tad, Szambotti, Espritu, Zylr, Prewitt, John S. and company.
I agree with Merylane's sentiment on the reliance of glue and not enough machining.
JoeyInCali said:
When I do delrin, I use a 5/8X11 and cut 4 slots for a lock.
JoeyInCali said:
I think if you read my post I said to thread it on and even when glued though it can be broken loose. I don't know about being indestructible you can scratch it with your thumb nail. M. implies cue makers who use other butt cap systems are in some way lazy and building an inferior product to increase their production or something. That is a silly premise as to why cue makers choose to use phenolics. It is just a matter of choice but it is certainly not hard to install a Delrin butt cap if the cue maker chooses to use them.
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There is a glue for delrin
Atlas sells a CA formulated for delrin. I tried it to glue some phemolic to the delrin and it took well and seems like a good bond. I have never tried to use delrin for a butcap but know that delrin is a very durable material, much more so than phenolic, and does not need linen reinforcement. Anyone tried glueing on a delrin butcap with this CA adhesive?
Atlas sells a CA formulated for delrin. I tried it to glue some phemolic to the delrin and it took well and seems like a good bond. I have never tried to use delrin for a butcap but know that delrin is a very durable material, much more so than phenolic, and does not need linen reinforcement. Anyone tried glueing on a delrin butcap with this CA adhesive?
That's the lazy way of doing it and it won't hold.olsonsview said:
As M would suggest, mechanically bonding it is the way.
Do what Mike W does and you will never see a Delrin buttcap come off unless the bottom has been shattered.
Talking about screwing on a Delrin butt cap, here is one I made, it says on it 1987 so it is like 19 years ago.JoeyInCali said:
I made it for myself and I did it in this way because I wanted to be able to change the weight easily and I wanted the weight to be deep in the butt of the cue around where I hold it and not just at the back. There is a brass weight pin I made that just threads in. I never glued in the butt cap and have played with it off and on for almost 20 years now and it never made any noises or anything.
When you unscrew the butt cap it always goes back perfectly with no unevenness. I doubt I would necessarily recommend making a cue this way but it did work. That cue by the way has like 54 MOP inlays in the butt and shaft. I did it on a manual Gorton. A lot of work, thank god for cnc, although I don't have one yet I think I may some time soon when I get into my new house this year and am completely retired.
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ATH said:
Back in '86, my 1st 6-10 Qs had Delrin butt caps. I agree with MACGUY, I won't make a Q with one now. In the past I have threded them on & put a pin in from the side, to hold them from coming loose. I covered the hole from the pin, with an inlay. There are just too many other materials, that I think are better & are a more permanent part of the Q, to use Delrin. If that's what the customer wants, I give him the name of others, that use Delrin...JER
Delrin comes in different formulas; 'filled' & 'nonfilled',,,,,,,,,the 'filled' variety ain't gonna stay glued anywhere,,,,I've had no problems threading and then epoxying the 'nonfilled' variety.....JMHO
I give up.
My bad.
My bad.
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JoeyInCali said:
This is no secret, It's part of that class 101 thingamaduhickey. If you can't glue it! Create a channel to help lock it. I don't know any secrets!
This is not a secret, because no one told me this, it is just an idea I had. If someone wants to try it out, feel free just let everyone know how it works out.Michael Webb said:If you can't glue it! Create a channel to help lock it. I don't know any secrets!
My idea is to core the delrin, with phenolic. OK, I know 'it wont glue so how could it be cored?' I think if the core is tapered, then the delrin could be held on by compression. The phenolic would be shaped like a cone and the delrin would have a matching taper bored through it. After the two parts are tapered, you could then bore a straight hole through the phenolic and thread it. When the phenolic is threaded onto a dowel it would squeeze the delrin up against the butt sleeve.
Maybe it would work, maybe not, but it might be worth a try.
Tracy
Tracy, there is absolutely no need for all that work.
But, have fun anyway.
But, have fun anyway.
I wonder if Gus would have said the same to George, when he was working on developing the buzz ring.JoeyInCali said:
You're probably right though.
Tracy