Design Theft **MOVED**
- Thread starter JimBo
- Start date
Thanks Jimbo for starting a new thread,a little late but better late then never,i really dont have anything to say on this topic although,it was all said in the other one.
Since you cannot define it, you shouldn't even bother.
Joe
Joe
Fast Lenny said:Thanks Jimbo for starting a new thread,a little late but better late then never,i really dont have anything to say on this topic although,it was all said in the other one.
Lenny why are you trying to Hyjack MY thread? Your post has nothing to do with the topic, please don't post to MY thread if YOU are not going to stick to MY topics.
Jim
JimBo said:
So, Jim, what's your opinion? Is or isn't the 6-pt Gilbert that I posted in the other thread a SW "knock-off" or "copy"? We have already heard from Fred that he thinks it is neither.
What's your definition....and how does this particular cue fit in your definition of these terms.
I think the problem here is that you appear to take such a hard-line stance with your "cue design theft" mantra (which may is admirable), but when faced with examples, your take on your own motto fluctuates from hard line (when it's a cuemaker that may be new to cuemaking, more of a "production shop"...e.g. Coker, KC Cues, Mohawk, etc. or a cuemaker whom aren't too familiar with) to just a quick brush off (when it's a cuemaker that you have some affinity with.....e.g. McWorter, T.Wayne, or Schick). That is what I think Joe's always been driving at and poking holes through your veil of CUE DESIGN THEFT.
Hell, I think most of us feel that copying an exact duplicate cue is wrong. It's with all these other sides of the argument that folks have problems with your position. IMO, as is life, cuemaking definitely has its shades of gray when it comes to styles and designs.
BTW, my take on the example Gilbert I have shown is that it is a "SW inspired design"....a design which originated from DPK, by the way. There are enough differences for it to not be a "copy" or "knock-off", and the cue holds true to Andy's standard specs. But, on the other hand, I guarantee this cue would look more like a SW from 15ft away in a pool room than any Coker I've ever seen.
Sean
cueaddicts said:
Ok now here's what I am talking about as far as numbers, take a SW, you have 6 points, 3 hi 3 low, you have a big pin flat face W2W phenolic joint, you have the SW rings, you have the butt section split in certain proportions split by a veneer, you also have ring placement (ABCD) now that to me is a simple cue, if you break it down into 5 or 7 aspects then I guess it comes down to how many you *BARROW* Also wood combos and veneer colors can detract IMO, so your cue (I think) had a purple veneer, SW doesn't use Purple or burls or certain wood combos, again how many of these SW items are used, how many of the aspects are the same (again butt section split or point size). This is why I like to talk about fancier cues, if a cue has 200+ inlays then it's 200 more things to compare, instead of 7-10 things, you have 200 different things, size and position as well as layout, if you take a super fancy cue and just change the rings it's not enough change to me, if you build a 6 point 3h3L cue with a solid back or a hoppe ring instead of the 70/30 SW split it may be enough, again it's not black and white unless it's an exact copy, or you can't tell from 5 feet. Hope this helps.
Jim
Exact Copies?
Hey,
You guys know a hellufalot more than most folks including myself.....but, I don't think I've ever seen an exact copy of any cue -- if you really look up close and personal -- an exact copy would be really tough....I think!?!?
I guess my point would be that if it lQQks so damn good then why not try to replicate that LOOK!? It's been going on forever and it won't stop anytime soon. Cues, Boats, Cars, Houses, whatever!?!?!?
Just my 2cents, but I like the simple/traditional 4 point with veneers and some accent ringwork and inlays are an extra special look to boot.
I guess I must need another beverage....anybody need a shot -- I'm buy'in
Hey,
You guys know a hellufalot more than most folks including myself.....but, I don't think I've ever seen an exact copy of any cue -- if you really look up close and personal -- an exact copy would be really tough....I think!?!?
I guess my point would be that if it lQQks so damn good then why not try to replicate that LOOK!? It's been going on forever and it won't stop anytime soon. Cues, Boats, Cars, Houses, whatever!?!?!?
Just my 2cents, but I like the simple/traditional 4 point with veneers and some accent ringwork and inlays are an extra special look to boot.
I guess I must need another beverage....anybody need a shot -- I'm buy'in
bruin70 said:jimbo,,,i understand your fervor. but try to look at szam designs this way,,,,,,,,,,,he did something that made it impossible NOT to copy.
Believe it or not I do *GET* that and to an extent I agree, but it still doesn't excuse something I feel is wrong. He deserves that much respect IMO and stealing his designs for your own sales isn't really a tribute is it?
read my reply to joe's "theft" thread. maybe you will understand.
I will have to find it.
i'll bet you really miss jeff, don't you
Bite your tongue, plus I'm sure he's back under a new name just behaving for a while.
But not to beat the horse any further or cloud things even more, I am more concerned with living people and newer fancier designs, not that I feel stealing from the dead is any better or any less wrong (cause I don't). It's just when I see people trying to achieve a look that someone still in business has created it bothers me more, because that person who came up with it has put time and effort into it and should be rewarded, not ripped off and another person should never benefit from someone else’s hard work. It also bothers me that idiots (it's the only word I can think to use) feel that design work isn't hard and or time consuming. The idea that life is short and I should be able to have whatever I want at a price I can afford is just crap IMO. Not everyone can afford a Lamborghini, in the same way that not everyone can afford a SW or a Szamboti, that's just life, people need to learn to accept it they have in other aspects of life, why should cues be any different?
Jim