Diamond Method for Measuring Pocket Openings/Current IPT Corner Pocket Spec Revealed

Greg/Diamond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are many ways to measure pocket openings. The current method for determining pocket size is to measure from tip to tip. Most people try to use a tape measure or other measuring device for this dimension to determine their pocket opening. This is a difficult, tedious, and a little misleading process. Therefore, it is not my preferred method for measuring pocket openings.

I am offering another method you may wish to use. Instead I use the “gate method.” First, we need to illustrate the difference between the two methods. When measuring with the tip to tip method, you are measuring at a distance above the center of the ball. This height along with the facing angle (12 to 15 degrees)allows the ball to hide approximately 1/32” underneath the tip/facing. The normal 4 1/2” pocket is actually 1/16” larger if we take into account the extra 1/32” on each side of the pocket underneath the tip. We call this the gate method.

I prefer to use new pool balls instead of a tape measure to illustrate this point and to measure the width of the gate. You need to imagine a line drawn tip to tip bisecting the two balls, with each ball touching the pocket facing. Use 2 striped balls per our illustration, dividing the painted portion of the ball.

The IPT now has what I call a true 4 1/2” pocket. Observe Illustration #1. Note: even though the gate method shows 2 balls measuring 4 1/2”, a tip to tip measurement would be closer to 4 7/16”.

Now go one step further. Use 2 balls to measure any pocket. All you need to do is to place the balls in the proper position and measure the gap between the balls and add 4 1/2” (the width of 2 balls.)

The reason that I like the gate method so much more is that you almost always have 2 balls around a pool table. What I care about most is knowing the margin of error (how much I can miss a shot by.)

On the IPT table, the margin of error is one ball width or 2 1/4”. The margin of error then equals one ball width plus the space between the two balls. Illustration #2 shows the margin for error on a Diamond Professional with Pro-Cut pockets. Tip to tip this measurement is 4 9/16” but with the gate method the opening is 4 5/8”.

In addition, a ball can be used to measure slate depth very easily. We will discuss this at a future date. I hope this illustrates the simplicity of the gate method to measure pocket openings.

Food for thought: Have you ever wondered why a ball sometimes goes with another ball in the path not realizing that the widest part of the ball passes under the tip a little bit giving it room to go?

The illustrations for this post are at the following link:
http://homepage.mac.com/paul8ball/PhotoAlbum4.html
 
Greg...Are the cut angles of the pocket corners the same for both the IPT and the Pro Cut tables? They look close, but I can't tell if the IPT is a hair smaller at the drop zone. Nice way to measure, btw! Thanks for posting!:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Greg...Are the cut angles of the pocket corners the same for both the IPT and the Pro Cut tables? They look close, but I can't tell if the IPT is a hair smaller at the drop zone. Nice way to measure, btw! Thanks for posting!:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott

The angles are still the same 142 +- 1 degree, but we favor the - (141). Whenever you make the pocket opening smaller you should reduce the angle accordingly. That's why just adding more facings and not reducing the angle often results in the dreaded rattle!! The angle determines where on the rail (if any) a ball can contac and still go in the pocket. There are other factors as speed of the hit, cloth wear and humidity, but the angle of the facing either directs the ball back into the pocket or towards the other facing not allowing it to go in.

As to the drop zone (slate depth) the larger the pocket opening the deeper the object ball can set in a pocket. On the pro specs we at Diamond strive to see at least 40% of the ball when the ball is against the facing and as deep as it can be without falling in as seen by sighting down the rail. On the IPT table since the opening is slightly smaller, more ball will be visible. But were cutting hairs which in pool makes a difference!! Greg/Diamond
 
Greg nice post.

I was talking to someone at Diamond about this very thing today.

I have a question does the type of cloth come into play WRT pocket width?

For example is the Gorina nap cloth thicker than the typical 860 simonis and wouldnt that reduce the pocket width?

I just ordered my Pro table today with the pro cut pockets and we discussed width and how the thickness of different cloth could change a 4 1\2 opening to 4 7\16 or even slightly less.

thanks
SR
 
Your description was very detailed Greg, but the photos showed exactly what you were talking about.
Thanks,
JoeyA
 
Greg/Diamond said:
There are many ways to measure pocket openings. The current method for determining pocket size is to measure from tip to tip. Most people try to use a tape measure or other measuring device for this dimension to determine their pocket opening. This is a difficult, tedious, and a little misleading process. Therefore, it is not my preferred method for measuring pocket openings.

I am offering another method you may wish to use. Instead I use the “gate method.” First, we need to illustrate the difference between the two methods. When measuring with the tip to tip method, you are measuring at a distance above the center of the ball. This height along with the facing angle (12 to 15 degrees)allows the ball to hide approximately 1/32” underneath the tip/facing. The normal 4 1/2” pocket is actually 1/16” larger if we take into account the extra 1/32” on each side of the pocket underneath the tip. We call this the gate method.

I prefer to use new pool balls instead of a tape measure to illustrate this point and to measure the width of the gate. You need to imagine a line drawn tip to tip bisecting the two balls, with each ball touching the pocket facing. Use 2 striped balls per our illustration, dividing the painted portion of the ball.

The IPT now has what I call a true 4 1/2” pocket. Observe Illustration #1. Note: even though the gate method shows 2 balls measuring 4 1/2”, a tip to tip measurement would be closer to 4 7/16”.

Now go one step further. Use 2 balls to measure any pocket. All you need to do is to place the balls in the proper position and measure the gap between the balls and add 4 1/2” (the width of 2 balls.)

The reason that I like the gate method so much more is that you almost always have 2 balls around a pool table. What I care about most is knowing the margin of error (how much I can miss a shot by.)

On the IPT table, the margin of error is one ball width or 2 1/4”. The margin of error then equals one ball width plus the space between the two balls. Illustration #2 shows the margin for error on a Diamond Professional with Pro-Cut pockets. Tip to tip this measurement is 4 9/16” but with the gate method the opening is 4 5/8”.

In addition, a ball can be used to measure slate depth very easily. We will discuss this at a future date. I hope this illustrates the simplicity of the gate method to measure pocket openings.

Food for thought: Have you ever wondered why a ball sometimes goes with another ball in the path not realizing that the widest part of the ball passes under the tip a little bit giving it room to go?

The illustrations for this post are at the following link:
http://homepage.mac.com/paul8ball/PhotoAlbum4.html

Hi Greg, thanks for the info. Two balls won't fit inside of my 4" pockets so I can't use that method, lol! What do you think is the minimum size a corner pocket could be and still be able to make a ball down the rail? And have you ever tried making one that small?

Love your tables, and your sponsorship of pool, by the way!

unknownpro
 
Wow, I guess that's the official IPT cloth as well? I know they said "slow nap", but that looks a lot like US Open rough to me. Not sure if my Judd has enough LOFT to play on that sh*t :(
 
Is it just me, or is the shelf on that pro-cut table a lot deeper than the shelf on the IPT one? I would think the deeper shelf would make for a much tougher pocket?

-Andrew
 
SloRoller said:
Greg nice post.

I was talking to someone at Diamond about this very thing today.

I have a question does the type of cloth come into play WRT pocket width?

For example is the Gorina nap cloth thicker than the typical 860 simonis and wouldnt that reduce the pocket width?

I just ordered my Pro table today with the pro cut pockets and we discussed width and how the thickness of different cloth could change a 4 1\2 opening to 4 7\16 or even slightly less.

thanks
SR
SloRoller,

I haven't taken any actual measuremets, but it certainly seems logical to assume thicker cloth would have to make the pocket width a little smaller. Again we are cutting hairs, but small amounts can make a difference in pool! ....Greg/Diamond
 
My 9' AMF table was shimmed prior to me purchasing it. It is retired from a local pool hall.

I am not sure what method or material they used to shim the pockets up, but if you contact the rail before it goes in the pocket, it will rattle like crazy and will not go in unless it is a very slow roll with spin to ease it into the pocket...

Now, I do appreciate a very tight table as it forces you to aim that much better, but mine is beyond challenging....

Nothing worse than hitting a shot mack 1 at the hole, nicking the inside of the rail and it rattles and comes back at you as fast as it went towards the pocket in the first place:mad:

Greg, what needs to be done to correct my issue? Recutting the rails and reshimming it to the correct angles?

I'd appreciate any info you have.

And thanks for such a great detailed thread!!!
 
Well, I figured that out......

I just got too curious and took off an end rail and removed all of the staples and peeled the felt back.

There are 2 shims on each rail, and someone replaced the rail rubber and did not cut it at anywhere near the right angle....

They are cut at an angle that throws the ball towards the other rail and away from the pocket.

Looks like I order new rail rubber and redo everything.

I've been wanting to anyhow...

:mad:
 
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