Diamond Pro-Am Cushion Height?

bradsh98 said:
I have sections of cushions, from past installations. I have created models, based on actual measurements of these cut sections.

The rail section itself is modeled from measurements taken from a cut section of a Gold Crown 1 rail. Of course, the sub-rails in these models were designed by me, based on the cushion profiles that are attached to them.
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Only problem with your drawing, it's showing a 22.5 sub-rail bevel so you must have drawn it up based on the K55 Monarch Superspeed cushions which were 1 1/8"ths wide across the top, todays Superspeed are 1 1/4" wide and require a 23.5 sub-rail bevel.
 
realkingcobra said:
Only problem with your drawing, it's showing a 22.5 sub-rail bevel so you must have drawn it up based on the K55 Monarch Superspeed cushions which were 1 1/8"ths wide across the top, todays Superspeed are 1 1/4" wide and require a 23.5 sub-rail bevel.
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That could quite well be the case. I had the model labeled 'Superspeed'... I didn't think to check the measurement to make sure that it was the k55, and not the Monarch.. I also have an MBS k66, and a couple of others. i created these quite some time ago, but just threw labels on them a couple of days ago.

I will confirm as soon as I am able.

Thanks Glen.
 
bradsh98 said:
That could quite well be the case. I had the model labeled 'Superspeed'... I didn't think to check the measurement to make sure that it was the k55, and not the Monarch.. I also have an MBS k66, and a couple of others. i created these quite some time ago, but just threw labels on them a couple of days ago.

I will confirm as soon as I am able.

Thanks Glen.
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And just so you're aware, K66 don't work on sub-rails 1 11/16" thick, you have to lower the bevel way to much to get the nose height down to 1 7/16" and it'll bank spriny as hell and bank shortnwhen you're done.
 
Something has just occured to me. Please take a look at the picture below - it's Simonis 760. Should it be "hairy" like that, or is it possible that it's been installed upside down?

upside down.jpg
 
realkingcobra said:
Only problem with your drawing, it's showing a 22.5 sub-rail bevel so you must have drawn it up based on the K55 Monarch Superspeed cushions which were 1 1/8"ths wide across the top, todays Superspeed are 1 1/4" wide and require a 23.5 sub-rail bevel.
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Glen, I reviewed the model, and confirmed that I did in fact use a Brunswick Superspeed K55 cushion. I also added some dimensions for clarification.
23.5 degrees is the correct angle for 1 29/64" nose height, whereas 22.5 degrees sets it at 1 7/16".
 

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bradsh98 said:
Glen, I reviewed the model, and confirmed that I did in fact use a Brunswick Superspeed K55 cushion. I also added some dimensions for clarification.
23.5 degrees is the correct angle for 1 29/64" nose height, whereas 22.5 degrees sets it at 1 7/16".
Click to expand...

Geoff, in your diagram, does the nose-height measurement take into account the bed-cloth thickness?
 
bradsh98 said:
Glen, I reviewed the model, and confirmed that I did in fact use a Brunswick Superspeed K55 cushion. I also added some dimensions for clarification.
23.5 degrees is the correct angle for 1 29/64" nose height, whereas 22.5 degrees sets it at 1 7/16".
Click to expand...

First off, if your measurements were taken from a GC1 rail, then the sub-rail would have been milled for the K55 Monarch Superspeed cushions which were 1 1/8" wide along with a 7/8" wide sub-rail cap for a total width of 2" from the formica to the nose of the cushion, and the bevel would have been 23.5 degree down angle. In your drawing you're saying you drew it out for a 1 1/4" wide superspeed cushion, but if that be the case, the distance from the formica to the nose of the cushion should have ended up being 2 1/8" wide, and because the newer superspeed cushions have a wider back for gluing the cushions to the sub-rails, your drawing should have shown the bottom of the cushion overhanging the backward angle st the bottom of the sub-rail because the newer K55 superspeed cushions are an 1/8" wider across the back gluing area than the K55 monarch superspeed cushions. And its been my experience that 1 degree down angle difference causes way more change to the nose height than 1/64"th of an inch.

And yes, his 760 is on upside down, the weave grain is more dominant in rows and fuzzy, vs the finish side of the 760 in which the weave grain is more meshed together and less visible in rows. When he starts seeing little knot balls forming on the cloth in areas, if they haven't appeared already, that only happens on the back side of the cloth if its exposed to wear.
 
bradsh98 said:
I have sections of cushions, from past installations. I have created models, based on actual measurements of these cut sections.

The rail section itself is modeled from measurements taken from a cut section of a Gold Crown 1 rail. Of course, the sub-rails in these models were designed by me, based on the cushion profiles that are attached to them.
Click to expand...

As I stated, I designed this sub-rail profile for a k55 cushion. This is why the distance from formica to the nose of the cushion has been changed to 2". Also why there is no overhang.


I should also mention: we are dealing with wood, rubber, and contact cement. Two installers could use the same exact materials, and come up with considerable variation in nose height, depending on how the cushions are installed.

Your experience may show something different from what these illustrations depict. It is important to note that these illustrations are for reference only. I can certainly say, from my own experience, these angular dimensions are a bit arbitrary. The goal is to achieve a target nose height. I really don't care what the angle is, and it can be difficult to measure anyway. I use these angular dimensions as a reference point. To produce accurate results, you still need to take a test cut and measure the results.
 
realkingcobra said:
And yes, his 760 is on upside down, the weave grain is more dominant in rows and fuzzy, vs the finish side of the 760 in which the weave grain is more meshed together and less visible in rows. When he starts seeing little knot balls forming on the cloth in areas, if they haven't appeared already, that only happens on the back side of the cloth if its exposed to wear.
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It's always difficult to tell, when the photo is such a close-up view. However, look at the first photos on the thread.. Yes, the grain is quite pronounced, but the shear looks pretty smooth. The backside has a lot more surface texture than what is visible in those photos.
 
bradsh98 said:
It's always difficult to tell, when the photo is such a close-up view. However, look at the first photos on the thread.. Yes, the grain is quite pronounced, but the shear looks pretty smooth. The backside has a lot more surface texture than what is visible in those photos.
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The cloth has been on that table a while, you can tell by the dirt build up under the rail, don't get cleaned much, if any. Therefore a lot of the fuzz on the cloth so to speak is already going to be shed off, whereas the actual playing surface side would with that much usage already, be smooth with no fuzz at all showing.
 
tjohnson said:
Geoff, in your diagram, does the nose-height measurement take into account the bed-cloth thickness?
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Cloth or no cloth on the slate has no bearing on the nose height as the rail sits on top of either and maintains the same distance from nose to surface.
 
realkingcobra said:
Show some more pictuers, not quite so close, and make some of them showing the cloth on top of the cushions.
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Hi Glen,

Here you go:

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The cloth has been on the table for about 2 months or so. When I first felt the cloth it felt very "furry" but since then has gotten a bit smoother, I guess the brushing takes the fibres off bit by bit.
 
Tomster said:
Hi Glen,

Here you go:

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The cloth has been on the table for about 2 months or so. When I first felt the cloth it felt very "furry" but since then has gotten a bit smoother, I guess the brushing takes the fibres off bit by bit.
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That's a newer Diamond blue label, who installed the cloth? Tell them next time, install it the opposite of what they did this time, it's upside down.
 
realkingcobra said:
That's a newer Diamond blue label, who installed the cloth? Tell them next time, install it the opposite of what they did this time, it's upside down.
Click to expand...

Wow! Those photos certainly show it a lot better. Definitely upside down. Crazy..
 
I recall the mid-room tables at Hard Times had the cloth (not sure if it was Simonis) flipped over when the correct side was worn. It was like playing on denim. And yes, I've also seen and heard of used cloth being sent overseas.
 
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