Diamond pro am

realkingcobra said:
It only happens when it is humid or wet, but my other question is WHY only my table. I have played on 1000 new diamonds and even in wet conditions the rails dont jump

You don't have the only table effected by humidity, dirty cloth, dirty balls. I've played on Diamonds, Brunswick's, Olhausen's, Connelly's...you name it. They ALL are effected by the above mentioned.

Now, back to my questions, what is the height of the cushions, and what cue ball are you playing with? If you can't answer these questions, it's pointless to continue on with this discussion.

Glen[/QUOTE]
ok gebius the rail heaight is 1 and 1/2 inches all the way around. I use the dotted tv cue ball. I play pretty well and it was a professor of HVAC at a college who told me that so please dont insult my intelligence. He said it makes the cusihion dip down just a bit and that would definetely cause that reaction. Paul set up my table, he is a friend as well. It didnt do it from the gate but maybe in the past 6 months is when but really nocticeable when its humid. The room is small and it is heated and air conditioned but it has garage doors still with tiny gaps so it gets a little weathered. I understand i dont have the only table affected by this genius but i SAID IF YOU PAID ATTENTION it is the only one i have seen act this bad.
 
Dartman said:
Are you/he suggesting the cloth gets tighter with increaded humidity? :confused:
I think your hvac guy should stick to hvac.
Well now i have it confirmed by 4 peolpe one being a college professor that the humidity shrinks the cloth and in fact pull the edge of the cushion down and hair,,, now remeber tool this is a confined space so the effects are balloned more than a wide open pool room. You should stick with being confused.
Thanks for your ignorant reply and offering no help.:rolleyes:
 
cincyman said:
Well now i have it confirmed by 4 peolpe one being a college professor that the humidity shrinks the cloth and in fact pull the edge of the cushion down and hair,,, now remeber tool this is a confined space so the effects are balloned more than a wide open pool room. You should stick with being confused.
Thanks for your ignorant reply and offering no help.:rolleyes:
OK, first of all, the rail rubber at Diamond is mounted at 1 29/64" of an inch, I know, I've been working with the Diamond people for the last 7 years, and I know how to build pool tables, do you? Second, humidity does NOT shrink cloth, it makes it loose, much the same as if you wet the cloth on the playing surface, it'll get looser than hell! Third, I wouldn't give a damn if you put your pool table outside on the driveway, right out in the open air, it's NOT going to make the cue ball hop up and almost hit you in the "FACE", especially with your so called 1 1/2" inch high rail rubber. Forth, humidity does not make rail rubber cushions sag!!!!! Sixth, you need to call someone alright...but it's not Diamond, if I were you, I'd be looking in the yellow pages under shrinks!!!!

Seventh, take your dumb-ass back to school, and start over again, for someone that claims to know college professors, you are about one dumb-ass when it comes to spelling, hell...you don't even know how to use spell check on your damn computer kid!!!

Eighth, if you'd like, when I'm back in Indiana, let me know, I'll come and pick up your Diamond table and replace it with a Valley 7ft coin-op, because maybe that'll fit your personality a lot better than a Diamond does!

Glen

CLEAN THE DAMN TABLE CLOTH AND BALLS, GET ALL THAT CAT HAIR OFF THE PLAYING SURFACE!

One in a million, and buddy...you made it!
 
wow

Your on here asking for help with your Diamond table, and the guy that installs more diamonds than most is trying to help you and your calling him the Idiot. that is pure genious!! almost collge professor level. I guess you took one to many balls to the face, just my opinion. Yes i am an asshole.
 
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realkingcobra said:
OK, first of all, the rail rubber at Diamond is mounted at 1 29/64" of an inch, I know, I've been working with the Diamond people for the last 7 years, and I know how to build pool tables, do you? Second, humidity does NOT shrink cloth, it makes it loose, much the same as if you wet the cloth on the playing surface, it'll get looser than hell! Third, I wouldn't give a damn if you put your pool table outside on the driveway, right out in the open air, it's NOT going to make the cue ball hop up and almost hit you in the "FACE", especially with your so called 1 1/2" inch high rail rubber. Forth, humidity does not make rail rubber cushions sag!!!!! Sixth, you need to call someone alright...but it's not Diamond, if I were you, I'd be looking in the yellow pages under shrinks!!!!

Seventh, take your dumb-ass back to school, and start over again, for someone that claims to know college professors, you are about one dumb-ass when it comes to spelling, hell...you don't even know how to use spell check on your damn computer kid!!!

Eighth, if you'd like, when I'm back in Indiana, let me know, I'll come and pick up your Diamond table and replace it with a Valley 7ft coin-op, because maybe that'll fit your personality a lot better than a Diamond does!

Glen

CLEAN THE DAMN TABLE CLOTH AND BALLS, GET ALL THAT CAT HAIR OFF THE PLAYING SURFACE!

One in a million, and buddy...you made it!
Obviously i dont install tables, but please dont insult my intelligence and tell me i am not seeing what i am seeing. I asked for help and a was flamed for being an idiot. Next time your in indiana please call me and come over and meet me at my house i beg you. I am no kid and not an idiot. As for spelling i could care less. I just wanted help not to be told what i am seeing with my own eyes. I am not using an oversized cue ball lol i have been around in the pool world and would love to play you some also. I might even pay your gas to get here if you bet high enough. And when you shoot a long rail and it hops up in the air you can go "wow, how did that happen" Maybe because the cue ball is the size of a bowling ball, Oh wait that not it. I dont know maybe Diamond magically installed this guys rails 4 inches higher or lower than normal, wait thats not it. Maybe because its a lille humid in here-ding ding ding. I dont know about installing tables beside general knowledge and you dont know about common courtesy. This the second time i have asked something and you chimmed in with a smart ass reply and being an a**hole. I am about tired of it.
YOU GOT IT.
 
Poolhalljunkie said:
Your on here asking for help with your Diamond table, and the guy that installs more diamonds than most is trying to help you and your calling him the Idiot. that is pure genious!! almost collge professor level. I guess you took one to many balls to the face, just my opinion. Yes i am an asshole.


As for you read this ::
It only happens when it is humid or wet, but my other question is WHY only my table. I have played on 1000 new diamonds and even in wet conditions the rails dont jump[/quote]

You don't have the only table effected by humidity, dirty cloth, dirty balls. I've played on Diamonds, Brunswick's, Olhausen's, Connelly's...you name it. They ALL are effected by the above mentioned.

Now, back to my questions, what is the height of the cushions, and what cue ball are you playing with? If you can't answer these questions, it's pointless to continue on with this discussion.

Glen

He is the one who got an attitude with me for no reason. I can 100% tell you i care none for your opinion and if you cant answer my question dont say a f*&^^*g word. Thanks
I will accept your apology only after you go back and read the entire thread and then read my previous threads where this penis wrinkle was an a@@hole to me in the past and maybe you will understand
By the way Thanks
 
cincyman said:
Well now i have it confirmed by 4 peolpe one being a college professor that the humidity shrinks the cloth and in fact pull the edge of the cushion down and hair,,, now remeber tool this is a confined space so the effects are balloned more than a wide open pool room. You should stick with being confused. Thanks for your ignorant reply and offering no help.:rolleyes:

Typical cushion nose height for any pool table is 1 7/16". At 1 1/2" you are on the high side and a ball would be more likely to die rather then bounce.
Naturally hvac guys and college professors would know more about pool tables so I'm sure my reference is incorrect.

Talk about ignorant, lmao, you describe yourself very well.
Ok Ok, cloth gets tighter in humid conditions. You and the 4 idiots keep thinking that in your bizarro world, lmfao.

Something tells me this dickweed has used up his welcome here. :D
 
realkingcobra said:
humidity does not make rail rubber cushions sag

Wow - who to believe, Glen, the hvac guy, the professor, maryann or the millionaire, hmmmm.
 
If you take your shirt off and throw into a bucket of water....does it shrink or expand? Humidity will cause the fibers in the cloth to expand!

Now, it's possible that when the cloth dehumidifies it can shrink some causing the rubber to be pulled down. However, if you read Glen's post he describes on how this can be fixed by cleaning both balls/cloth and rubbing really hard in an attempt to loosen the cloth for a bit to allow the rubber to re-set correctly.

I agree with other posts....Glen has been in the table mechanics industry for a very long time and is considered one of the best.....just because your buddy is a college professor means nothing. If your car breaks down, do you listen to your college professor or take it to a mechanic? Glen was trying to be helpful and somehow a misunderstand took place...attacking him was uncalled for.

Oh, and we can play some if you'd like :-)

-Phillip
 
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If you take your shirt off and throw into a bucket of water....does it shrink or expand? Humidity will cause the fibers in the cloth to expand!

Now, it's possible that when the cloth dehumidifies it can shrink some causing the rubber to be pulled down. However, if you read Glen's post he describes on how this can be fixed by cleaning both balls/cloth and rubbing really hard in an attempt to loosen the cloth for a bit to allow the rubber to re-set correctly.

I agree with other posts....Glen has been in the table mechanics industry for a very long time and is considered one of the best.....just because your buddy is a college professor means nothing. If your car breaks down, do you listen to your college professor or take it to a mechanic? Glen was trying to be helpful and somehow a misunderstand took place...attacking him was uncalled for.

Oh, and we can play some if you'd like :-)

-Phillip
 
You started it Kid, now I'm going to slow things down a bit, so you can follow along, and maybe understand something.

The point of the cushions are at 1 7/16" of an inch high at ball contact. The object balls are 2 1/4" round, that makes it 1 1/8" of an inch to the dead center of the object ball, including the cue ball. Now, if you subtract the difference between the two, the center of the object balls is 5/16" of an inch below the point of the cushion. So, you asked the question, "How come the balls are jumping off my rails?" So, through a process of elimination, we rule out all the other possible reasons for the balls to be jumping off your rails, leaving only humidity as the reason.

First let me explain what happens when you bank the cue ball into the cushions on a normal table, in normal conditions. If you play draw english on the cue ball, it's spinning back-wards when it comes into contact with the cushion, meaning it's trying to dig under the point of the cushion, and in fact, the backward spin is trying to lift up the point of the cushion at contact. As the cue ball comes off the rail, it don't have to slide on the cloth to change direction of the spin because it's already spinning in the direction in which its traveling. Try that on your table just once. Shoot the cue ball straight into the cushion where it jumps off with draw english, and I guarantee it WON"T jump!

Next, a cue ball hit with center english is not spinning at all, it's actually sliding on the cloth without any spinning movement at all. When the cue ball slides into the cushion, it compresses the cushion rubber straight back, and rebounds off, UNLESS...the cushion rubber is lower than 1 7/16" of an inch, in which in your case, it's not! Now, a center hit cue ball, if it rolls forward before it hits the cushion, has forward spin on it because its no longer sliding.

Then, finally, top spin. With top spin, like draw english, you can change the angle of deflection coming off a cushion because as the cue ball is rebounding off the cushion, its still spinning in a forward direction, normally when a cue ball comes off a cushion, even though its traveling away from the cushion, its still spinning in the directions of the cushion until it reverses direction caused by the friction of contact between the cue ball and the cloth. This is why cleaning and waxing the balls is so important, because it helps reduce the friction build up caused by the surface of the balls, thus giving you better breaks and an increased ability to apply english/spin with the cue ball. But, in order to reduce the friction of the surface of the balls you also have to keep the surface in which the balls roll clean as well, or you're just wasting your time cleaning the balls, they're just going to pick up the dirt from the cloth right away, and go back to playing the same.

Now lets add some humidity to the table. Humidity is moisture. Moisture on the cloth creates a tremendous amount of "Friction" to the surface of the cloth and as the balls roll around on the cloth, they pick up the moisture as well on the surface of the balls. Combine humidity with dirt, and you have balls clinging on top of each other if they come in contact just right, usually that happens when the object ball is rolling in a forward direction and comes in contact with another object ball sitting still. The ball with forward momentum tries to climb up on the second ball, causing what is referred to as "Cling" and tries to hold onto it for a split second, screwing up the shot you just tried making.

Now, with the addition of humidity to the cloth and balls, when the cue ball has a humid surface, and the cloth has a humid surface, the cue ball when it comes into contact with the cushion with forward english, instead of sliding off the cushion, it actually with its forward momentum tries to climb "UP" the point of the cushion, causing it to lift off the playing surface as it tries to climb up the point of the cushion. Now, as it climbs the cushion and compresses the rail rubber at the same time, the rubber decompresses and pushes the cue ball backward but in an upward rebounding angle because the cue ball is no longer touching the playing surface of the slate/cloth

You have one of three options to stop the cue ball from jumping off the rails.
1: Remove/lower the humidity from the air in the room the table is in.

2: Dry out the cloth with heat, which will help keep the surface of the balls dry.

3: Clean the cloth and wax the balls daily, or at lease every time before you plan on playing.

At the very least, throw a heating blanket on the slate, and let it warm up the table for a few hours before you decide to start playing, that'll help dry out the cloth. Circulate the air in the room, even if its just with fans, that also helps to evaporate humidity.


Glen
 
Excellent explanation Glen but I think you're wasting your time with this.
You offered help several times but OP prefers the opinion of the professor and hvac dude even tho they are both wrong about the affect of humidity on cloth. OP obviously has no clue of your credentials so maybe you would be better off saving your time and ink for someone that will appreciate your assistance.
 
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realkingcobra said:
You started it Kid, now I'm going to slow things down a bit, so you can follow along, and maybe understand something.

The point of the cushions are at 1 7/16" of an inch high at ball contact. The object balls are 2 1/4" round, that makes it 1 1/8" of an inch to the dead center of the object ball, including the cue ball. Now, if you subtract the difference between the two, the center of the object balls is 5/16" of an inch below the point of the cushion. So, you asked the question, "How come the balls are jumping off my rails?" So, through a process of elimination, we rule out all the other possible reasons for the balls to be jumping off your rails, leaving only humidity as the reason.

First let me explain what happens when you bank the cue ball into the cushions on a normal table, in normal conditions. If you play draw english on the cue ball, it's spinning back-wards when it comes into contact with the cushion, meaning it's trying to dig under the point of the cushion, and in fact, the backward spin is trying to lift up the point of the cushion at contact. As the cue ball comes off the rail, it don't have to slide on the cloth to change direction of the spin because it's already spinning in the direction in which its traveling. Try that on your table just once. Shoot the cue ball straight into the cushion where it jumps off with draw english, and I guarantee it WON"T jump!

Next, a cue ball hit with center english is not spinning at all, it's actually sliding on the cloth without any spinning movement at all. When the cue ball slides into the cushion, it compresses the cushion rubber straight back, and rebounds off, UNLESS...the cushion rubber is lower than 1 7/16" of an inch, in which in your case, it's not! Now, a center hit cue ball, if it rolls forward before it hits the cushion, has forward spin on it because its no longer sliding.

Then, finally, top spin. With top spin, like draw english, you can change the angle of deflection coming off a cushion because as the cue ball is rebounding off the cushion, its still spinning in a forward direction, normally when a cue ball comes off a cushion, even though its traveling away from the cushion, its still spinning in the directions of the cushion until it reverses direction caused by the friction of contact between the cue ball and the cloth. This is why cleaning and waxing the balls is so important, because it helps reduce the friction build up caused by the surface of the balls, thus giving you better breaks and an increased ability to apply english/spin with the cue ball. But, in order to reduce the friction of the surface of the balls you also have to keep the surface in which the balls roll clean as well, or you're just wasting your time cleaning the balls, they're just going to pick up the dirt from the cloth right away, and go back to playing the same.

Now lets add some humidity to the table. Humidity is moisture. Moisture on the cloth creates a tremendous amount of "Friction" to the surface of the cloth and as the balls roll around on the cloth, they pick up the moisture as well on the surface of the balls. Combine humidity with dirt, and you have balls clinging on top of each other if they come in contact just right, usually that happens when the object ball is rolling in a forward direction and comes in contact with another object ball sitting still. The ball with forward momentum tries to climb up on the second ball, causing what is referred to as "Cling" and tries to hold onto it for a split second, screwing up the shot you just tried making.

Now, with the addition of humidity to the cloth and balls, when the cue ball has a humid surface, and the cloth has a humid surface, the cue ball when it comes into contact with the cushion with forward english, instead of sliding off the cushion, it actually with its forward momentum tries to climb "UP" the point of the cushion, causing it to lift off the playing surface as it tries to climb up the point of the cushion. Now, as it climbs the cushion and compresses the rail rubber at the same time, the rubber decompresses and pushes the cue ball backward but in an upward rebounding angle because the cue ball is no longer touching the playing surface of the slate/cloth

You have one of three options to stop the cue ball from jumping off the rails.
1: Remove/lower the humidity from the air in the room the table is in.

2: Dry out the cloth with heat, which will help keep the surface of the balls dry.

3: Clean the cloth and wax the balls daily, or at lease every time before you plan on playing.

At the very least, throw a heating blanket on the slate, and let it warm up the table for a few hours before you decide to start playing, that'll help dry out the cloth. Circulate the air in the room, even if its just with fans, that also helps to evaporate humidity.


Glen
Thank you all i ever wanted was an explanation not to be degraded. And yes the hvac guys said the humidity makes the cloth expand and then when it got lower it contracted pulling the rubber down. If anyone would have takn the time to READ my original post i say the conditions are brutal because in cincy one night the airs on the next the heat and since i have only one or the other and i am not out there at 4 in the morning i turn both off therefore the room gets a little weathered. So i have a good rep here and know many many reputable people very well so my welcome is not worn out. I only wanted an explanation from some one knowledgeable but not going to tbe sarcastic and treat me like i have never played pool before. The table recently started doing it noticeably so the questions about " what cue ball" and "check the rail height" and shit like that are a waste of my time. AND YES PHILLIP YOU CAN GET PLAYED
 
cincyman said:
Thank you all i ever wanted was an explanation not to be degraded. And yes the havoc guys said the humidity makes the cloth expand and then when it got lower it contracted pulling the rubber down. If anyone would have takn the time to READ my original post i say the conditions are brutal because in cincy one night the airs on the next the heat and since i have only one or the other and i am not out there at 4 in the morning i turn both off therefore the room gets a little weathered. So i have a good rep here and know many many reputable people very well so my welcome is not worn out. I only wanted an explanation from some one knowledgeable but not going to tbe sarcastic and treat me like i have never played pool before. The table recently started doing it noticeably so the questions about " what cue ball" and "check the rail height" and shit like that are a waste of my time. AND YES PHILLIP YOU CAN GET PLAYED
You have your explanation, so I'm done with this conversation.

Glen
 
cincyman said:
If anyone would have takn the time to READ my original post i say the conditions are brutal because in cincy one night the airs on the next the heat and since i have only one or the other and i am not out there at 4 in the morning i turn both off therefore the room gets a little weathered.
Original Post
cincyman said:
I have a 9 ft diamond pro am bought brand new in november so it alomost a year old. I would say it gets moderate play.
Tha table is in my garage that i turned into a pool room. 20x21 dry wall ceiling carpet, heating and air. It has a few gaps where the garage doors are but they are small. Now to my question i have a humidity gauge out there and it generally stays between 40 and 50 percent. On both end rails there are a few spots where the ball will jump off the rail in the air. Its generally in the same spot on both sides of the table. I checked the cushion and it doesnt seem loose----and some days it is worse than others ---- Why is this. and what can i do to prevent it?

cincyman said:
The table recently started doing it noticeably so the questions about " what cue ball" and "check the rail height" and shit like that are a waste of my time.
FYI - when someone asks about ball hop off the cushions the first question an experienced mechanic will ask is rail height and cueball size. If you think diagnostics are a waste of your time then why did you bother posting here.
On the contrary, you are wasting our time with your pompous attitude and unwillingness to communicate with people trying to help you. Rep ping.
 
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cincyman said:
Thank you all i ever wanted was an explanation not to be degraded. And yes the hvac guys said the humidity makes the cloth expand and then when it got lower it contracted pulling the rubber down. If anyone would have takn the time to READ my original post i say the conditions are brutal because in cincy one night the airs on the next the heat and since i have only one or the other and i am not out there at 4 in the morning i turn both off therefore the room gets a little weathered. So i have a good rep here and know many many reputable people very well so my welcome is not worn out. I only wanted an explanation from some one knowledgeable but not going to tbe sarcastic and treat me like i have never played pool before. The table recently started doing it noticeably so the questions about " what cue ball" and "check the rail height" and shit like that are a waste of my time. AND YES PHILLIP YOU CAN GET PLAYED
Well, I guess I just earned my first "RED" rep point, thank you cicnyman, still don't change the fact that you're an ass!!!...LOL

Glen
 
Cincyman

Any time I have asked Glen a question about my 9ft pro-am he always had an answer or suggestion. Sometimes his advice seemed a little goofy and unbelievable but he was always right. Since he seems to know his shit when it comes to pool tables I want to meet the guy and have him recover my table even though I know full well how to do it myself. I want to see what he does different than I do and it's worth the money he wants to get him here. And if I were you I don't think I'd be inviting him up to your place to give him a piece of my mind....the guy is an animal.
 
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