Diamond table

Wybrook said:
This is simply not true.... If you have a table in a very humid environment, it will hop, even if its the newer blue label.

At Derby this year, a ton of balls were hopping off the tables as people hit them with speed.. I have played on both extensively and they are both fine.

.........
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Will I happened to be a victim of that multiple times at DCC... which I never have problems with even on full speed banks anywhere around here. We have a couple of new pool halls with new blue label 9ftrs that I play on just about every day. Something wasn't right at DCC...

So I got to thinking a little... we weren't bouncing balls off of the Action Room table using the Aramith ball set. So I decided to take advantage of the Cyclop Ball deal offered at the DCC event and had a new of Cyclop balls sent to my house. Its where I play daily with a new set of Aramith Tournament -Duramith Balls- Perfectly weight matched etc- its the set with the circle around the number.

I immediately got out the scales for comparison and they weight within .05 ounces of my Tournament Aramiths... Awsome! But something seems different with the CB... Putting the Cyclop CB on the scale compared the rest of the balls in the same set shows that this CB weights apprx 0.1 more (6oz) as opposed to the Aramith Tournament CB (5.9oz),..FWlW the measel CB was 5.8oz and the red circle was 5.6oz ...

So I go back to full speed banking on my home table with these new Cyclop balls and would you believe it I almost broke a TV because of the bounce I got off of MY Rails. BS... This is what I saw in DCC. I got out the other balls (A.Tournament balls) banked balls harder than I did with the New Cyclop balls and no balls went flying. Even at my local pool hall which has the older set of Cyclop balls (diamond shape on the CB.. not the evil eye CB in this new set) the OB's bank clean... ie limited Bounce with high speed shots) Something 'don't fit'.

At DCC I said countless times that the rails are acting like they are too low ie not allowing the ball to rebound accurately above medium speed shots. Full speed and the OB ball bounces 'high' off the rail meaning no grab to shorten angles (plays wide or goes off the table). I just point at the first round elimination list in the banks and let that stand on its on....

Back to these New Cyclop balls.... My home rails havent changed so theres something else to look at here. Well if the rails are correct then there must be something going on with balls... Sure enough the Balls are BIGGER like 1-1.25mm taller then my other balls (and the older Cyclop balls) . You can get a flat egde *(like the flat surface of a rack or whatever) and you can get 2 of the new Cyclop balls and rest the flat surface across the top and pass between them EASILY under the flat surface ANY of and older set of balls... Any CB ANY OB.

These Balls are TALLER, BIGGER or whatever you want to call it, making its "Height of Contour" (- at the balls equator) hit higher up on the rail causing the different effects (mainly bouncing but also spin off effect etc). This make the rebound effect completely different. I'm looking at it now real time on my own equipment wondering how could anyone expect anything different. Maybe this is why MANY who bank (like John B) where we "hold up" the OB, had to slow our bank speeds down just to keep the OB on the table surface. I'm sure I wasn't the only "ameuture" or PRO in that 1st round 'loser group' that looked like an ameuture due to this over size Big Ball issue.

Just saying, Heavy CB banging an over sized OB into the standard height rail AIN"T a pretty sight.... or fun experience.

Randy
 
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JerryOhio said:
There is no noticeable difference! I have owned both and I challenge any high end player to tell me the diff if the label was covered up! You definitely need a diamond for a junior star... Contact Stan Shuffet (Google him for contact info) his son is world class player (Landon). Stan knows!!!
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Hmmmm...are you talking about the Stan Shuffet that I already rebuilt his red label older Diamond Pro, and turned it into the Blue label specs?....the same one Landon plays on at home, naaaa....they wouldn't have noticed the difference, not at all....LOL
 
realkingcobra said:
After speaking with Hector, Manny's father, I agreed to rebuild and refinish the Diamond table by steel plate joining the slates together, installing the Diamond leveling system, rebuilding the rails completely, install Artemis intercontinental cushions, new drop pockets...and refinish the table, all worth $2,500....as sponsorship on my part for his son to have a chance at seeing how far he can go in the pool playing world....all for the cost of wearing a Diamond patch representing Diamond tables. I'll be at his location sometime April or May to get started on the job.
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Glen is a good dude. He basically broke even and brought me my table of my dreams! I sold a perfect gold crown 2 with 4" pockets to get a year old 9' pro am just 3 weeks ago. I look forward to to dinner we have to honor is dedication to helping people in the game of pool. He's a gentlemen who gets misrepresented here on az sometimes. Thanks glen!
 

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rhatten said:
... Sure enough the Balls are BIGGER like 1-1.25mm taller then my other balls (and the older Cyclop balls) . ...
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Hmmm. Under WPA equipment specs, balls must be within 5 thousandths of an inch of 2.25". One millimeter is about 39 thousandths of an inch. If the Cyclop balls were 1 millimeter higher than the Tournaments, they would likely be way out of spec. But even at that, their center would still be way below the cushion nose, which is supposed to be above the table bed by 62½ % - 64½ % of the diameter of the ball (or, roughly 300 thousandths of an inch above the ball's midpoint). So, yes, something strange is happening.

Do you have some calipers so you could measure both your Aramith Tournaments and your Cyclop balls?
 
rhatten said:
Will I happened to be a victim of that multiple times at DCC... which I never have problems with even on full speed banks anywhere around here. We have a couple of new pool halls with new blue label 9ftrs that I play on just about every day. Something wasn't right at DCC...

So I got to thinking a little... we weren't bouncing balls off of the Action Room table using the Aramith ball set. So I decided to take advantage of the Cyclop Ball deal offered at the DCC event and had a new of Cyclop balls sent to my house. Its where I play daily with a new set of Aramith Tournament -Duramith Balls- Perfectly weight matched etc- its the set with the circle around the number.

I immediately got out the scales for comparison and they weight within .05 ounces of my Tournament Aramiths... Awsome! But something seems different with the CB... Putting the Cyclop CB on the scale compared the rest of the balls in the same set shows that this CB weights apprx 0.1 more (6oz) as opposed to the Aramith Tournament CB (5.9oz),..FWlW the measel CB was 5.8oz and the red circle was 5.6oz ...

So I go back to full speed banking on my home table with these new Cyclop balls and would you believe it I almost broke a TV because of the bounce I got off of MY Rails. BS... This is what I saw in DCC. I got out the other balls (A.Tournament balls) banked balls harder than I did with the New Cyclop balls and no balls went flying. Even at my local pool hall which has the older set of Cyclop balls (diamond shape on the CB.. not the evil eye CB in this new set) the OB's bank clean... ie limited Bounce with high speed shots) Something 'don't fit'.

At DCC I said countless times that the rails are acting like they are too low ie not allowing the ball to rebound accurately above medium speed shots. Full speed and the OB ball bounces 'high' off the rail meaning no grab to shorten angles (plays wide or goes off the table). I just point at the first round elimination list in the banks and let that stand on its on....

Back to these New Cyclop balls.... My home rails havent changed so theres something else to look at here. Well if the rails are correct then there must be something going on with balls... Sure enough the Balls are BIGGER like 1-1.25mm taller then my other balls (and the older Cyclop balls) . You can get a flat egde *(like the flat surface of a rack or whatever) and you can get 2 of the new Cyclop balls and rest the flat surface across the top and pass between them EASILY under the flat surface ANY of and older set of balls... Any CB ANY OB.

These Balls are TALLER, BIGGER or whatever you want to call it, making its "Height of Contour" (- at the balls equator) hit higher up on the rail causing the different effects (mainly bouncing but also spin off effect etc). This make the rebound effect completely different. I'm looking at it now real time on my own equipment wondering how could anyone expect anything different. Maybe this is why MANY who bank (like John B) where we "hold up" the OB, had to slow our bank speeds down just to keep the OB on the table surface. I'm sure I wasn't the only "ameuture" or PRO in that 1st round 'loser group' that looked like an ameuture due to this over size Big Ball issue.

Just saying, Heavy CB banging an over sized OB into the standard height rail AIN"T a pretty sight.... or fun experience.

Randy
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Here's what you need to do if you're so sure the Cyclop balls you received are so far out of spec in size. Ship them back to Diamond, they'll measure them for size just to back up your claim, and send you back a new set....how can you beat that offer, Diamond does stand behind what they sell, so how about that;)
 
rhatten said:
Will I happened to be a victim of that multiple times at DCC... which I never have problems with even on full speed banks anywhere around here. We have a couple of new pool halls with new blue label 9ftrs that I play on just about every day. Something wasn't right at DCC...

So I got to thinking a little... we weren't bouncing balls off of the Action Room table using the Aramith ball set. So I decided to take advantage of the Cyclop Ball deal offered at the DCC event and had a new of Cyclop balls sent to my house. Its where I play daily with a new set of Aramith Tournament -Duramith Balls- Perfectly weight matched etc- its the set with the circle around the number.

I immediately got out the scales for comparison and they weight within .05 ounces of my Tournament Aramiths... Awsome! But something seems different with the CB... Putting the Cyclop CB on the scale compared the rest of the balls in the same set shows that this CB weights apprx 0.1 more (6oz) as opposed to the Aramith Tournament CB (5.9oz),..FWlW the measel CB was 5.8oz and the red circle was 5.6oz ...

So I go back to full speed banking on my home table with these new Cyclop balls and would you believe it I almost broke a TV because of the bounce I got off of MY Rails. BS... This is what I saw in DCC. I got out the other balls (A.Tournament balls) banked balls harder than I did with the New Cyclop balls and no balls went flying. Even at my local pool hall which has the older set of Cyclop balls (diamond shape on the CB.. not the evil eye CB in this new set) the OB's bank clean... ie limited Bounce with high speed shots) Something 'don't fit'.

At DCC I said countless times that the rails are acting like they are too low ie not allowing the ball to rebound accurately above medium speed shots. Full speed and the OB ball bounces 'high' off the rail meaning no grab to shorten angles (plays wide or goes off the table). I just point at the first round elimination list in the banks and let that stand on its on....

Back to these New Cyclop balls.... My home rails havent changed so theres something else to look at here. Well if the rails are correct then there must be something going on with balls... Sure enough the Balls are BIGGER like 1-1.25mm taller then my other balls (and the older Cyclop balls) . You can get a flat egde *(like the flat surface of a rack or whatever) and you can get 2 of the new Cyclop balls and rest the flat surface across the top and pass between them EASILY under the flat surface ANY of and older set of balls... Any CB ANY OB.

These Balls are TALLER, BIGGER or whatever you want to call it, making its "Height of Contour" (- at the balls equator) hit higher up on the rail causing the different effects (mainly bouncing but also spin off effect etc). This make the rebound effect completely different. I'm looking at it now real time on my own equipment wondering how could anyone expect anything different. Maybe this is why MANY who bank (like John B) where we "hold up" the OB, had to slow our bank speeds down just to keep the OB on the table surface. I'm sure I wasn't the only "ameuture" or PRO in that 1st round 'loser group' that looked like an ameuture due to this over size Big Ball issue.

Just saying, Heavy CB banging an over sized OB into the standard height rail AIN"T a pretty sight.... or fun experience.

Randy
Click to expand...

But I'm curious about something, what made you pass up the thought that maybe, just maybe....the other balls you put the straight edge over to rest the size of the Cyclop balls for size....we're not in fact....smaller in size that 2.25";) making the Cyclop balls appear larger in diameter?
 
realkingcobra said:
But I'm curious about something, what made you pass up the thought that maybe, just maybe....the other balls you put the straight edge over to rest the size of the Cyclop balls for size....we're not in fact....smaller in size that 2.25";) making the Cyclop balls appear larger in diameter?
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Touche'... I'll concede my "1mm" comment is a bit of miss characterization see below ...but feels and looks like it... yes they are within tolerance *(as described above)... Here are the measurement and observations I mentioned...

Aramith Tournament OB's have a circle around the number for those who are interested.

Inches...
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MM's....
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Flat edge resting on 2 new Cyclop CB's allows Aramith OB to pass easily under the height of the of the new Cyclop set....
picture.php

picture.php


... Not so with the Cyclop OB's in the same set...
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All I can say is these new Cyclop CB's definately play different and the OB's seem to 'hop more' coming off the rails with above medium speed banking... Call me (us) crazy... but it is what it is for whatever reason...

Bounce On, ;)

Randy

PS.. I realize that these comparisons are on a non-rigid surface like glass, but that would show even more differences in the 2 sets..

and You (they) can't have em back.. I'll adjust... just saying these (with this CB) play different.
 
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Diamond

Hey Hector you can talk to Adam Pfiefer about the Diamonds also he's usually at Shooters for Sat tourney and has a set of Cyclops you could try out. Glen is the man as far as table mechanics w a good rep go! Is this the table Gabe was selling?
 
realkingcobra said:
After speaking with Hector, Manny's father, I agreed to rebuild and refinish the Diamond table by steel plate joining the slates together, installing the Diamond leveling system, rebuilding the rails completely, install Artemis intercontinental cushions, new drop pockets...and refinish the table, all worth $2,500....as sponsorship on my part for his son to have a chance at seeing how far he can go in the pool playing world....all for the cost of wearing a Diamond patch representing Diamond tables. I'll be at his location sometime April or May to get started on the job.
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I feel I should also add that Diamond is in support of this sponsorship as well as I am, so it's not all me doing the contributions:thumbup:
 
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Wheres Glenn?

Has anyone seen Glenn? We are still waiting in KC! ...lol Glenn are you still planning on coming out to do Mannys table? lmk thanks !

I know your busy ! just a heads up if you can , thanks
 
9ball said:
Has anyone seen Glenn? We are still waiting in KC! ...lol Glenn are you still planning on coming out to do Mannys table? lmk thanks !

I know your busy ! just a heads up if you can , thanks
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Yes, just trying to get my life in order after my mom passed away 12/3/15. There's a lot to deal with having to clean up and sell her estate. I had to move as well and set up shop in eastern Washington because my moms property was the only place I ever built a shop, and the only address ever on my drivers license for the last 45 years, nothing like having your whole life turned upside down with losing my son 2/8/14 then my mom, that's a hard act to follow.
 
Well my condolences to you Glenn ! Can't imagine what your going through! Prayers sent your way !
 
9ball said:
Well my condolences to you Glenn ! Can't imagine what your going through! Prayers sent your way !
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I've gotten back up on a lot of horses in my lifetime, but nothing compared to the last 2 years of my life because I'm still trying to get back on.
 
9ball said:
Take it one day at a time !
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that's a lot easier said than done when you're turning 60 and the fact is you're looking at the last five to ten years of your life ahead of you wondering what you going to do with the rest of your life
 
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